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I'm currently working on a D6 Legend variant. I'm trying to keep most of the SW rules "as is" but my main focus right now is to replace the die rolling mechanic with the D6L success based one. One thing I've noticed is that D6L uses 3-6 as successes. The new Mouse Guard RPG uses a D6 4-6 success mechanic. Shadowrun uses more of a sliding scale for thier D6 successes. Does anyone have a good understanding of how using a different target number effects the game? Has anyone created a SWD6 Legend variant that they could share?

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Welcome to the board, Bram!

 

I'm currently working on a D6 Legend variant. I'm trying to keep most of the SW rules "as is" but my main focus right now is to replace the die rolling mechanic with the D6L success based one... Has anyone created a SWD6 Legend variant that they could share?

 

Being a big fan of Star Wars D6, I am facinated by your idea for a Legend variant of it. Please keep us posted on its progress!

 

One thing I've noticed is that D6L uses 3-6 as successes. The new Mouse Guard RPG uses a D6 4-6 success mechanic. Shadowrun uses more of a sliding scale for thier D6 successes. Does anyone have a good understanding of how using a different target number effects the game?

 

We do have some Legend geniuses on this board, so give them a chance to find this thread and respond. I've only played solitaire scenerios for it, so I understand the basic mechanics but don't have much experience with it. It does seem to me that changing the number of possible successes on each die roll would have a huge impact on the game system. I guess it would boil down to how easy you want success to be come by.

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Welcome, Bram!

 

I'm currently working on a D6 Legend variant. I'm trying to keep most of the SW rules "as is" but my main focus right now is to replace the die rolling mechanic with the D6L success based one. One thing I've noticed is that D6L uses 3-6 as successes. The new Mouse Guard RPG uses a D6 4-6 success mechanic. Shadowrun uses more of a sliding scale for thier D6 successes. Does anyone have a good understanding of how using a different target number effects the game? Has anyone created a SWD6 Legend variant that they could share?

 

The basic D6 Legend system provides a 66.7% chance of success per die - the Mouse Guard/Burning Wheel method gives a 50% chance of success, and the method being developed for the D6 Legend variant Honor Harrington RPG "Worlds of Honor" has successes on a 5 or 6, giving a 33.3% chance of success per die, unless the player provides a good description of their action, in which case they get an "Upshift" and succeed on a 4 through 6 (50% again).

 

For Star Wars, being a highly cinematic setting, I'd stick with original Legend as a basis, with 3+ equalling success - there's another RPG system out there, Ubiquity, used in Hollow Earth Expedition that uses a 50% chance per die, and while it works fine, it does provide a grittier success to failure ratio than Legend does.

 

The thing to remember is the relationship between your success vs. failure setting and the difficulty of tasks - in D6 Legend as published, a difficulty of 4 is pretty easy for a heroic level character to reach (a character with a die code of 6+ can reliably hit that) - in one using 4+ it's considerably more difficult - you'd need a die code of 8+ to reliably succeed.

 

Up to you, ultimately - for a Han Solo / Lando Calrissian rogue adventure in the Star Wars setting, you might go with 4+ - if Jedi and Sith are the focus, 3+.

 

Hope that helps!

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Also, check out these links - our own Miek had a great D6 Legend Star Wars project underway...

 

http://www.westendgames.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1008

 

http://miek.us/jedi_companion.pdf

Wow, thanks! I haven't had a chance to do more than skim these for now but it looks like these are a lot of the same ideas I was thinking about. Thanks for the die % info and the reference.

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You're very welcome! I also ran across this idea, originally posted by Liquidsabre at the Rancor Pit a while ago... It's not D6 Legend, but it's "Legend-ish" and you might find ideas you can use in it: http://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=266&highlight=&sid=f15cb186816318948d30958795596d7e

 

I too have entertained the idea of using the WW die-resolution system for d6 to alleviate problems with too much die-counting and it's absolutely brilliant! It's so much faster and the system provides further depth that the overly simplistic d6 difficulty numbers lack. I love it, and I have a tough time imagining why the d6 game couldn't have gone this route itself.

 

Not only do you have difficulty numbers (you can base 3, 4, 5, 6) for determining the number of successes rolled, but you can also scale the difficulty of the task (i.e. scale it between skilled and the not-so skilled) by altering the number of successes required to succeed at a task. This is also a useful tool for achieving tasks that may require more than 1 action to complete and characters with greater skill are more likely to complete these tasks sooner.

 

I like using the wild die as the classic two successes and a 1 subtracting a success, or if there are no successes to take away - a critical failure occurs.

 

I'm curious why the change to darkside points, why not just have them add dice if they choose to use them as normal? So 2 DSPs would provide the character with 2 extra dice to their dice pool, correct?

 

I've worked out the difficulty numbers I think so that 2 = very easy, 3 = easy, 4 = moderate, 5 = difficult, 6 = very difficult, 7+ = heroic (i.e. 6 and roll a 2+, etc.). I'm unsure how and when to apply the requirements for multiple successes for different skills and tasks.

 

It's works easily enough for combat naturally; just roll damage dice at a moderate difficulty (4) while the character hit rolls strength dice (same difficulty, 4) and the number of strength successes is subtracted from the damage successes. After the subtraction, any damage die successes left over are used to calculate how hurt the character is:

 

1 success = stun

2 successes = wounded

3 successes = incapacitated

4 successes = mortally wounded

5+ successes = killed

 

Character points spent add a die to the roll as normal and force points double the die-pool as normal. Everything works pretty much the same both numbers wise (I believe) just less counting and much faster. Plus you get an additional mechanic to vary the difficulty of skill use - the number of successes combined with the difficulty numbers. I'm still not 100% on how and when to apply a greater difficulty number versus increasing the number of successes required. Any advice?

 

Once we hammer out a good system for using the success-failure system in d6 I can't imagine why anyone would want to play d6 any other way - provided the system works, I've really only recently started playing with the mechanics of it. Can any rules mechanic-minded gamers out there lend a hand? Point potential trouble/weak spots or lend a hand to figuring this thing out?

 

****

 

Volar the Healer added:

 

If too many dice slow your players down, how about using the Star Wars Miniatures Battles rules? The players roll one die and add a modifier. The modifier equals however many dice the character has (4D becomes +4). The success numbers are easy=6, moderate=8, difficult=10. A 1 always fails and a 6 adds another die roll. This allows the players to use a simpler form of the WEG rules. I've used this when the player characters are part of a major battle and it worked well.

 

Someone (our own Grimace, actually) did eventually pop into that thread to point out that D6 Legend already existed, but there's some interesting thoughts in the post nonetheless...

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You're very welcome! I also ran across this idea, originally posted by Liquidsabre at the Rancor Pit a while ago... It's not D6 Legend, but it's "Legend-ish" and you might find ideas you can use in it: http://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=266&highlight=&sid=f15cb186816318948d30958795596d7e

 

Someone (our own Grimace, actually) did eventually pop into that thread to point out that D6 Legend already existed, but there's some interesting thoughts in the post nonetheless...

 

Ah Liquidsabre! Yes, he is actually part of my game group. He's been pushing me for quite awhile to do this project.

 

Combat

 

The gist of combat is essentially the same between D6 and its variants: The attacker rolls his combat skill, attempting to beat a difficulty number. If successful, he rolls to see how much damage is done. This section offers key differences between D6 and Legend. Be sure to peruse the combat section in the rules chapter of the appropriate game for further and more complete details.

 

Difficulty Number: The difficulty number in Legend is not a static number, as it is in D6. Rather, it's based on a fraction or roll of the character's Reflexes or dodge score and adjusted by a range modifier.

 

Dodging: In Legend, when a character dodges, the total generated is used in place of the difficulty number based on the attribute or skill score, not added to that number (as it is in the most popular version of D6).

 

Body Points: Wound levels aren't used in the Legend system. Rather, damage is taken off of Body Points, which are determined at character creation.

 

Weapon Damage: To reduce the large number of dice a player would need to roll for many weapons, the Legend system uses die codes times multipliers instead of straight die codes. For example, a handgun has a damage value of 5Dx2. A player would roll five dice and multiply the total number of success by two-instead of having to roll 10 dice. (The first critical success on the Wild Die is only counted once.)

 

Effect Value: Unlike in D6, getting high totals on your combat rolls with the Legend system has an influence on how much damage is done. The Effect Value is determined by subtracting the difficulty number from the success total. This value is then added to the amount of damage done.

I've been looking at the damage system for awhile and perhaps I'm missing something. Why do we double the damage die for weapons? Looking in the DC Universe book I see weapon damages such as 4Dx2 and 5Dx2. In classic D6 these would be 4D and 5D. We are already adding extra damage from the extra successes rolled from the attack roll plus this doubling the damage from weapons. All this damage seems excessive. Is this why we use body points in Legend instead of Classic's wound levels?

 

If that is the case, if I wanted to stick with the wound levels method instead of body points, could I just use the weapon damages without the multiplier and keep it balanced?

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Ah Liquidsabre! Yes, he is actually part of my game group. He's been pushing me for quite awhile to do this project.

 

I've been looking at the damage system for awhile and perhaps I'm missing something. Why do we double the damage die for weapons? Looking in the DC Universe book I see weapon damages such as 4Dx2 and 5Dx2. In classic D6 these would be 4D and 5D. We are already adding extra damage from the extra successes rolled from the attack roll plus this doubling the damage from weapons. All this damage seems excessive. Is this why we use body points in Legend instead of Classic's wound levels?

 

If that is the case, if I wanted to stick with the wound levels method instead of body points, could I just use the weapon damages without the multiplier and keep it balanced?

 

I'd suggest this, originally from D6&D6, posted on the D6 Yahoo Group some years back...

 

http://www.wegfansite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258

 

Then just use the existing Star Wars damage codes... Mike Lynes' Legend variants (the Matrix and Appleseed) linked on the Resources page at this site allow equipment to make use of pips, which is normally not done in Legend - either Francois (D6&D6) or Mike's method works, and would be less work than converting from Legend if you're using wound levels anyway...

Edited by Lee Torres
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The wound points in Hercules & Xena and DC Universe were actually the first thing I houseruled away - it seemed counterintuitive to simplify the task resolution away from the already simple method of D6 Classic, and then replace the simple wound system with wound points. I think that the multipliers are just a shorthand to avoid having to roll way more dice for damage. If I was aiming for a very gritty D6 game, I might use Classic task resolution with Wound Points (say if I wanted to recreate the movie "Die Hard") but for something not so... I'm at a loss for a good word to describe it... (brutally heroic, perhaps?) I'd go with D6 Legend matched up with the Wound Levels from Classic D6. I've used it for a few campaigns now, and it plays really well.

 

One of my nefarious schemes once D6 Legend is cut loose from the DCU or H&X IP so it can be added to the Open D6 SRD is to add in these house rules to allow the system I've been running for the past three to four years to be available to anyone interested in using it. I know the common line of thought is that the dice pools aren't too hard to sum up, and that's quite true, but using D6L this way really produces a quick to use and nicely "transparent" system, which is almost invisible in play, a huge plus from my perspective.

 

Anyway, hope all of this gets you closer to where you're trying to get to!

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Lee, I just want to say thanks for all the advice and links you've provided. My SWD6L is coming along nicely. I am now in the process of getting everything written down into a nice pocket player's guide so that my group can understand and learn it. The real trick will be pulling them away from D&D*sigh* and SW Saga to give this a chance.

 

One of my nefarious schemes once D6 Legend is cut loose from the DCU or H&X IP so it can be added to the Open D6 SRD is to add in these house rules to allow the system I've been running for the past three to four years to be available to anyone interested in using it.
I always assumed D6 Legend was open. Who currently holds it? Any idea when it will be open? At some point I would like to post my SWD6L so that anyone can use it but does this prevent me from doing so?
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In the Open D6 Update thread Eric said that he does not have the time at present to include D6 Legend in the SRD for Open D6, because he needs to focus on the main body of Open D6 (Classic D6) as well as West End Games' still-mysterious release for GenCon 2009.

 

I'm currently handling the task of transcribing D6 Legend, by writing up the mechanics while removing the Intellectual Property elements of DC Universe and Hercules & Xena so that D6 Legend can be included in the Open Content that Eric has already announced.

 

Back to work for me! :cool: Be patient, young Jedi - by the time you're finished with your book it should be true that D6 Legend is Open!

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Lee, I just want to say thanks for all the advice and links you've provided. My SWD6L is coming along nicely. I am now in the process of getting everything written down into a nice pocket player's guide so that my group can understand and learn it. The real trick will be pulling them away from D&D*sigh* and SW Saga to give this a chance.

 

I always assumed D6 Legend was open. Who currently holds it? Any idea when it will be open? At some point I would like to post my SWD6L so that anyone can use it but does this prevent me from doing so?

 

Eric Gibson and West End Games own D6 Legend, and see my previous post as far as when it will be Open.

 

Given the number of fan-created D6 Legend (and Classic, for the matter) settings and variants on the web, I don't think putting it online prior to Open D6 would be any problem. Open D6 allows writers and publishers to use the system for published material that is for sale, rather than free. But since it's Star Wars, and Lucasfilm has granted that property to WotC, it's not really a possibility in this case, so not much need to worry.

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I'm currently working on a D6 Legend variant. I'm trying to keep most of the SW rules "as is" but my main focus right now is to replace the die rolling mechanic with the D6L success based one. One thing I've noticed is that D6L uses 3-6 as successes. The new Mouse Guard RPG uses a D6 4-6 success mechanic. Shadowrun uses more of a sliding scale for thier D6 successes. Does anyone have a good understanding of how using a different target number effects the game? Has anyone created a SWD6 Legend variant that they could share?

 

I am curious what you feel the Legend system will give Star Wars that the current version does not.

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I am curious what you feel the Legend system will give Star Wars that the current version does not.
Personally I am fine with the current system. Problems emerge though when you start rolling many dice. I hate to say that counting is the trouble but my players are hardcore D&D'ers who like to see the results immediately. I want to avoid the temptation for people to start "estimating" what they rolled, not that they are trying to cheat but just being lazy. Counting successes is a lot faster and it's easier for me to look across the table and verify the result.

 

I'm also trying to update the Force rules a bit to match what we see in the prequels. I've always like the old Force rules so I'm trying to maintain them as much as possible. Adopting the Legend rules might give me some more room for added effects. I'm still toying with it and I might do some playtesting this week so we'll see how it turns out.

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Personally I am fine with the current system. Problems emerge though when you start rolling many dice. I hate to say that counting is the trouble but my players are hardcore D&D'ers who like to see the results immediately. I want to avoid the temptation for people to start "estimating" what they rolled, not that they are trying to cheat but just being lazy. Counting successes is a lot faster and it's easier for me to look across the table and verify the result.

 

I wish you the best and I am looking forward to your play testing results and anything you post here about this. I understand the main purpose of Legend is to have a system that moves faster because of not having to count up all the pips on the dice rolls.

 

No offense is meant to anyone that likes Legend, but your experience is contrary to mine. I've GMed with players from ages 14 to 40. In over 20 years as a Star Wars D6 GM, I have never encountered any players that had any significant trouble adding up the pips, nor did I ever observe any players that might be feeling too lazy to add up the dice precisely, nor have I ever suspected anyone of cheating or being strongly tempted to in my games. I have seen maybe a few players occasionally jump in and help add up the dice for another player, but that's usually just because they were more hyped up on caffiene and could do so slightly faster.

 

If there is a large number of dice, I tend to group the dice rolls into groups of "5" or "10" results, and the adding is very quick. Any way the pips can be grouped to make the arithmetic easier for each player can be helpful. But I've never felt that adding up all the pips has slowed the pace of the game down to make it less fun.

 

The Star Wars game system is so much simpler than D&D its not funny. My experience with playing d20 (even with experienced players) are flip flip flip through the many rule books or out right arguments over the rules. In fact, it seems like it should be to the contrary, but the more rules experts you have in the group then the more strife and disputes you have. Ugh, no fun at all. Talk about a slow moving game.

 

And last but not least, most of the players I've played with, including myself, totally enjoy rolling dice and adding up the pips to get the result. Maybe it's just the feeling of fun that has become associated with the action from so many years of enjoyment playing Star Wars D6.

 

But Star Wars Legend is a variant of Star Wars D6, and that's why I support this endeavor, or really any D6 legend endeavor. But I think if I ever had players that thought the arithmetic of adding up pips was to difficult, or players that felt too lazy to do so, I would probably have to make fun of them a tad bit. :cool:

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Personally I am fine with the current system. Problems emerge though when you start rolling many dice. I hate to say that counting is the trouble but my players are hardcore D&D'ers who like to see the results immediately. I want to avoid the temptation for people to start "estimating" what they rolled, not that they are trying to cheat but just being lazy. Counting successes is a lot faster and it's easier for me to look across the table and verify the result.

 

I'm also trying to update the Force rules a bit to match what we see in the prequels. I've always like the old Force rules so I'm trying to maintain them as much as possible. Adopting the Legend rules might give me some more room for added effects. I'm still toying with it and I might do some playtesting this week so we'll see how it turns out.

 

Well I believe in the back of the core books there are charts to help simplify things, expecially when you get to a high dice level (not that it happens fast in D6).

 

So it helps with the multidice problem and gives faster results.

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Having more than one action resolution system Is one of the strength of the d6 system in my opinion. I like classic but I have played enough shadowrun to know how counting successes has is merit to. When your throwing loads of die it is nice to easily see the results right off. Its really got its own feel to it as well.

 

Classics biggest strength is the bell curve, Iv always said "D6 is die pool system for fans of bell curves".

 

I think its great that we can each play in the way we enjoy the most. Advantages and disadvantages aside I think its a matter of taste. Which is great in its own right.

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