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Kage2020

School me on d6 (high/low points)

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You're probably wondering about that thread title, but if you didn't catch my introduction in another thread (no harm, no foul) I'm coming back to d6 after a while away. I've a love of generic systems, and recently I've come back to d6 for my current project (Earthdawn/Shadowrun etc.) after taking a gander through Godsend Agenda and some of the other d6 projects out there.

 

It would be really helpful for speeding my way back into d6 if people would be kind enough to let me know what the sweet and gnarly points of d6 happen to be. For example, the "blaster proof wookie" that refers, I believe, to damage resistance rolls of high Strength. (You get a similar problem in other resistance-based systems like Dark Heresy and Shadowrun.) The solution to this problem seems to be using the Body Point system.

 

What about the other problems of the system when you run it at certain build levels or styles?

 

And, of course, what about the alternate? What are the absolutely cool things about d6 that sing? That are just pure joy to deal with as a GM or as a player?

 

In the hopes that someone takes the time to respond, thanks for taking the time to respond. It is very much appreciated. :D

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Potential problems:

 

Becomes a bit of an "elephant in the corner" when you hit higher levels of skills. Rolling 12+ dice for skills can become quite a bear over time, and moreso when a player burns a Fate Point (Force Point) and is then rolling 24+ dice. Some love rolling lots of dice, others not-so-much.

 

Scaling become a bit of an issue if you have a wide range of things. This is not a problem if you just gloss over the differences in scales.

 

Weapon damage in the books begin to look anemic over time.

 

The mentioned "bullet proof Wookiee" is generally considered a problem.

 

 

Areas where D6 shines!:

Making NPCs is a fantastic breeze. You can whip up NPCs so quickly, with a variety of skill differences, that you don't even have to interrupt play! I call in it "On the fly NPC creation".

 

The system is, from my experience, the most malleable out there, and least likely to "break" with chances to the system that you throw in. It's robust! You want more crunch? D6 can handle it! You want more generic? D6 has your back! You like the newest thing you saw in a publication but don't want to use the full setting? D6 will invite you to tweak it and can stretch itself to handle the new rule that was designed for a different setting but will be used completely differently in your game!

 

And most importantly.... Cinematic feel!

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First, thanks for taking the time to respond, Grimace. As noted above, it is very much appreciated. ^_^

 

Becomes a bit of an "elephant in the corner" when you hit higher levels of skills. Rolling 12+ dice for skills can become quite a bear over time, and moreso when a player burns a Fate Point (Force Point) and is then rolling 24+ dice. Some love rolling lots of dice, others not-so-much.

Rather than roll a bucket-load of dice, do you find the "Die Code Simplification" tables that are published in many of the d6 books (I'm looking at Godsend Agenda now and it's on p274 there)? For example, your example of 24D becomes 5D+67 (including the wild die) or 1D+81 (wild die method).

 

I hear what you're saying about some players loving to roll the dice. Perhaps not that many, but I remember the days when I took an old group from AD&D to Shadowrun and the just loved being able to roll all those d6 rather than a single d20. :D

 

Scaling become a bit of an issue if you have a wide range of things. This is not a problem if you just gloss over the differences in scales.

Would you be kind enough to go into more detail, here? I remember scaling from the days of WEG's Star Wars and it's one of the things that I loved about the system. I've encountered the rules for scaling damage/to-hit, but to be honest I haven't spent too much time with it other than to generally note that it makes qualitative sense. If you could be so kind as to point out the quantitative problems then that would be awesome.

 

Weapon damage in the books begin to look anemic over time.

I can interpret anemic a number of ways, here, but by dictionary definition of the word it would seem that you're suggesting that weapon damage isn't quite as high (appropriate?) to the weapon in question?

 

The mentioned "bullet proof Wookiee" is generally considered a problem.

It was the first thing mentioned when I asked people to school me on the d6 system over on RPG.net's TRO. The thread died really quickly, though, so I thought that I would come to a d6-specific forum in the hopes of getting more in-depth information.

 

As far as I can tell, though, the "bullet-proof Wookie" is only a problem if you're using the "wound system" from Open d6, yes? If you use the "body point" system then there is no soak roll so the toughness of the Wookie (or other strong/big creature) doesn't really factor into it other than setting the original body point total?

 

Areas where D6 shines!: [snip]

All good points that make me excited to come back to d6 for my current project! :D

 

(And, in fact, I'm heading over to that thread and your reply to it as soon as I hit submit!)

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I think Grimace got most of the good points, but I'll swing in with a few points.

 

Rather than roll a bucket-load of dice, do you find the "Die Code Simplification" tables that are published in many of the d6 books (I'm looking at Godsend Agenda now and it's on p274 there)? For example, your example of 24D becomes 5D+67 (including the wild die) or 1D+81 (wild die method).

 

I've offed the 5D simplification method as an option, but I've never used it at the table. My players have been very happy to roll small mountains of dice when burning Force/Fate Points, and quickly realize the diminishing returns for super high skill codes and just take the multiple action penalty or invest their Character Points more diversely in the first place.

 

As far as I can tell, though, the "bullet-proof Wookie" is only a problem if you're using the "wound system" from Open d6, yes? If you use the "body point" system then there is no soak roll so the toughness of the Wookie (or other strong/big creature) doesn't really factor into it other than setting the original body point total?

 

Yeah, body points would solve this - it gives you the option of having a "death by a thousand cuts" like D&D does. I prefer the Wound Levels method myself, and there are a few options you can try out for house rules to resolve this. I've seen making the "best" result Stunned (so there's some penalty for getting hit), making the Wild Die roll of 1 on a damage resistance check always take the highest other die or cause an automatic Wound, allowing combined fire (enemies focusing on a big, threatening target) for extra damage, and other solutions I'm sure I've forgotten. Personally, I just allow a bonus to damage based on the attack check Result Points, and haven't seen a problem with it. There's always story options, too - forcing the PCs into situations where damage resistance isn't a huge advantage, or just using a really big weapon or larger scale creature/vehicle against the party.

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I think Grimace got most of the good points, but I'll swing in with a few points.

The more the merrier, I say. ^_^

 

 

I've offed the 5D simplification method as an option, but I've never used it at the table. My players have been very happy to roll small mountains of dice when burning Force/Fate Points, and quickly realize the diminishing returns for super high skill codes and just take the multiple action penalty or invest their Character Points more diversely in the first place.

So that's two for "buckets of dice" rolling--fair enough.

 

I guess I'll see how it goes, but in many ways the wild die+mod column reminds me of EABAv2's "Taking 2s," which I always felt was a great way to keep the gaming going unless you really needed to roll the dice.

 

Yeah, body points would solve this - it gives you the option of having a "death by a thousand cuts" like D&D does.

When you put it like that it sounds less appealing. ;) Seriously, though, the body resistance just never seems to work for me be it in Shadowrun or, say, Dark Heresy.

 

With that said, I'm used to HP mechanics so I'll probably stick with that. At the same time, I'm fond of the idea of a certain proportion of your Body Points counting as a "wound" (or whatever) showing that it is was a significant amount of damage that might have some complications. (I'm thinking of the mechanics from Pendragon as I type this, but I'm sure that it shows up elsewhere too in various forms (e.g. GURPS' crippling injuries).

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Re body points/wounds, isn't that an option in a sidebar or something in the d6 books? Sorry I don't have them in front of me... it also might have been something Grimace mentioned once in one of his billion million posts...

 

I hear what you're saying about some players loving to roll the dice. Perhaps not that many, but I remember the days when I took an old group from AD&D to Shadowrun and the just loved being able to roll all those d6 rather than a single d20. :D

 

Yeah, it's a complaint I hear around the net, but not a problem I've had with my players (ever). Partially this is related to skill dice bloat IMO... but there are multiple ways to skin the goose. I don't use Fate Points, so that's one thing. Or skill specializations, again cutting down on stat bloat. I also use MiniSix static defense numbers to eliminate some die rolling. I've tried eliminating the soak roll too but, as you say, it's the kind the players like to make. People like rolling dice! There's a reason people have been playing with them for thousands of years! In D&D, many times new players would look at all those cool shapes and say... wait, we never roll those?!?! Not a problem with d6!

 

 

Would you be kind enough to go into more detail, here? I remember scaling from the days of WEG's Star Wars and it's one of the things that I loved about the system. I've encountered the rules for scaling damage/to-hit, but to be honest I haven't spent too much time with it other than to generally note that it makes qualitative sense. If you could be so kind as to point out the quantitative problems then that would be awesome.

 

I'm way too incompetent at math for that, but I can explain a bit. In SW, there are various categories: character, speeder, walker, etc. It's pretty well thought out, IMO, and I've found it works fine (when I think to use it). Now, think of a fantasy game. Human size, well that's character scale. How about a horse? One step up, right? How about a covered wagon? Or a stone gatehouse? Or a caravel? Or.... To me it's in fantasy games where this gets wackiest... In d6 Adventure, you have something like a zeppelin. It's big, but it's easy to damage. It's nice because you can use this to make creatures tougher, quickly, and if you scale in pips rather than dice I find that works better. Although it does require looking at a table (because I can't remember that stuff).

 

I can interpret anemic a number of ways, here, but by dictionary definition of the word it would seem that you're suggesting that weapon damage isn't quite as high (appropriate?) to the weapon in question?

 

There are quite a few threads about weapon damage and armor values here, I went round and round with those a couple years back, and others have done the same with firearms stats. Basically, d6 changed the melee damage stat from STR to 1/2 lifting score. Then, they rejiggered weapon and armor stats as well. In my experience, and I think Grimace's too, the stats are borked, so that attacks don't do enough damage. I have tried various things, and my most recent approach is to just go back to the SW values, tweaking the wound levels slightly. I think the d6 System book values are OK too (and I think that's what the MiniSix guys worked from).

 

It was the first thing mentioned when I asked people to school me on the d6 system over on RPG.net's TRO. The thread died really quickly, though, so I thought that I would come to a d6-specific forum in the hopes of getting more in-depth information.

 

Sorry I was banned here for a long time, somebody pushed the wrong button I guess. As for rpg.net things tend to spin off into the weeds quickly.

 

As far as I can tell, though, the "bullet-proof Wookie" is only a problem if you're using the "wound system" from Open d6, yes? If you use the "body point" system then there is no soak roll so the toughness of the Wookie (or other strong/big creature) doesn't really factor into it other than setting the original body point total?

 

Never used body points, so I dunno. I will say this is a worse problem in SW or other games when creatures or aliens get special goodies ON TOP OF high strength, like barabels. How many damned wookiees and barabels are there floating around space anyway?

 

As for the blaster-proof wookiee, I don't deny it's a problem, and as everyone and their cousin on the big purple will repeat constantly, needing to houserule something to make the system work is not great. However, it's not totally unlike the D&D character with armor of invulnerability or anything else. Use things that do damage not reduced by STR. How about grenades, stunguns, teargas, (as you or someone noted) combined actions (and/or masses of opponents), tactical advantages (cover, etc). It's an issue but IMO one that is pretty easily resolved.

 

Oh, and note that melee weapon damage caps are good (see SWR&E) to make sure the wookiee with the cutlass doesn't do 11D damage :) In general, I prefer to deal with the blaster-proof wookiee directly in game, rather than nerfing everything else.

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Re body points/wounds, isn't that an option in a sidebar or something in the d6 books? Sorry I don't have them in front of me... it also might have been something Grimace mentioned once in one of his billion million posts...

 

 

 

Post billion million and ONE! :)

 

Yep, I used a blend of Body Points and Wound points for my fantasy game.

 

Basically is was Body Points, but there was still a defense roll to resist damage.

 

However if the damage was over the defense roll, you lost Body Points.

 

If you lose 10% of character's Body Points, you were "Just Scratched", no negative effect.

If you lose 11% to 25%, you were "Wounded", -1D

If you lose 26% to 50%, you were "Badly Wounded", -2D

If you lose 51% to 75%, you were "Incapacitated", knocked out for 1Dx5 Rounds, then -3D

If you lose 76% to 100%, you were "Mortally Wounded", knocked out for 1Dx10 MINUTES, lose 1 BP per minute at this level, and -4D

More than 100% Body Points lost, you were Dead. (Or maybe only "mostly dead" ;))

 

But I also increased damages on weapons to make them a bit more believable.

And I introduced a Constitution attribute, so the super buff characters with a high strength didn't become the "bullet proof Wookiee". You could still boost STR and CON, but then you were making other skills weak which would hurt you in the long run.

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If you lose 10% of character's Body Points, you were "Just Scratched", no negative effect.

If you lose 11% to 25%, you were "Wounded", -1D

If you lose 26% to 50%, you were "Badly Wounded", -2D

If you lose 51% to 75%, you were "Incapacitated", knocked out for 1Dx5 Rounds, then -3D

If you lose 76% to 100%, you were "Mortally Wounded", knocked out for 1Dx10 MINUTES, lose 1 BP per minute at this level, and -4D

More than 100% Body Points lost, you were Dead. (Or maybe only "mostly dead" ;))

 

But I also increased damages on weapons to make them a bit more believable.

I do like the sounds of this (is it in Open d6? It's looking a little bit familiar), but if I'm going down that route I wonder if I should be a little bit more extreme and import a damage system that I rather like that might be compatible (or it might not). If nothing else the comparison will be worth while. :D

 

More in a short while.

 

Any thoughts on that "cool magic system" as per the Earthdawn/Shadowrun thread, out of interest? :D

 

Oh, and once again all: Thanks for your help. It's much appreciated, especially since this is a quiet place to post. ^_^

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Okay, hopefully there's no huge faux pas for double-posting or anything like that. If so, my apologies and I'll try not to do it again. :)

 

Also, before I go on, do you have an example of those tweaked weapon statistics that made things a bit more "believable"? I'm asking for just a point of comparison.

 

The one thing that I don't like about the Body Point system is that you get into the ever-increasing hit point thing that D&D (and many other) systems have going for them. How was that put? Oh yes, the "orbital dwarf" that would jump out of their Spelljammer ship, taking the burning damage or orbital re-entry and the falling damage, then get up to fight (and win) a battle. All because of hit points that increase with each level.

 

So, I'm coming to d6 from EABAv2, and while I love that system it seemed particularly suited for certain styles of games. It is just a little bit too... tight, and I'm rather fond of running things a bit looser than that. (And, again, Godsend Agenda is a great sell--even for someone that is not particular fond of superhero settings!) There is, however, a lot to love about it and one of those things is "realism" (or the aim for it).

 

So, the gist of it is that "hit points" are limited to the sum of your--in that system--Strength and Health in levels rather than dice. What EABA does here is have "three pips," or levels, per die (which sounds familiar! ;)). So 3d in that system is 3x3pips, or 9. So a character with average Strength and average "Health" would be around 2d in each, or 2x3x2, or 12 "hit points."

 

Without going into too much detail, the "crunch" comes into the system in differentiating between three types of damage, or rather two types and an intermediate one: non-lethal and lethal. Things like guns do lethal, while things like fists do non-lethal (though if you beat someone hard enough non-lethal quickly becomes lethal). The number of hits that one is associated with debilitating effects (reduction in dice pool) based upon the amount of damage, pretty much like you have above.

 

And in the above scheme, a modern 9mm does around 2D+1...

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You definitely don't need to get into an ever increasing hit point things with Body Points. Roll once at character creation, keep that for the rest of the game.

 

For my fantasy game, I had the following: Roll Constitution and add 20. That's it. One roll, and that's the total Body Points the character will have. The only way for the Body Points to raise up would be to increase the attribute Constitution. And since that is 10x the number in front of the D, that's not going to happen all that often. Someone at 3D+1 would need to spend 30 Character Points to increase that to 3D+2. That's an increase of 1 pip, which would increase the Body Points of the character by 1 whole number. If you're giving out so many Character Points that people are raising attributes quickly, then you have an issue with the rewards you are offering.

 

So a person rolls 3D+1 (say then get an 11) and add 20. That gives them a total of 31 Body Points.

 

That means when they take 1-3 damage, they are "Scratched" (no real harm done)

When they take 4 - 8 damage, they are "Wounded" (-1D)

When they take 9-17 damage, they are "Badly Wounded" (-2D)

When they take 18-24 damage they are "Incapacitated"

When they take 25-31 damage they are "Mortally Wounded"

 

 

If the player managed to boost the Constitution attribute by 1 pip, that would give the character 32 Body Points, and would add on to the very bottom row (it becomes 25-32). Not a big ordeal, really.

 

 

And in terms of weapon damage, a modern 9mm, such as the M-9, would be better at 3D+1.

5.56mm weapons would be in the range of 5D+1 damage.

7.62mm weapons would be in the 6D+1 range for damage.

 

(When I'm looking at the D6 Adventure weapons, they are looking fair in that regard, so maybe I'm remembering some other weapons)

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I actually realised that I was committing an RPG faux pas of changing things before I had really gotten back into the system to see how it goes. EABAv2 just has a lot of good things going for it that I could see using to get rid of some of the things that I've raised my eyebrows at in d6. (For example, I'm not a huge fan of the dynamic damage resistance vis-a-vis armour, preferring EABAv2's system whereby the armour code cancels out an equal amount of the damage code, e.g., 2D armour against a 3D+1 attack allows 1D+1 damage through.)

 

You definitely don't need to get into an ever increasing hit point things with Body Points. Roll once at character creation, keep that for the rest of the game.

You're right. I think that I had a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that an "average" character with 2D in Physique end sup with 30 body points, while you're M-9 is averaging 11-12. That's just shy of three hits, which seems quite a bit.

 

With that said, if I dialed back the knee-jerk that just makes it more cinematic from the get-go rather than EABAv2's assumption of being gritty.

 

So, let me ask this: Have you ever reduced the number of body points to make people more fragile?

 

The only reason that I kind of zeroed in on the EABAv2 value is that I know that they're fairly coherent with reality while I had many critiques of weapon damages with d6.

 

If the player managed to boost the Constitution attribute by 1 pip, that would give the character 32 Body Points, and would add on to the very bottom row (it becomes 25-32). Not a big ordeal, really.

You're right. Thanks for the reminder.

 

And in terms of weapon damage, a modern 9mm, such as the M-9, would be better at 3D+1.

5.56mm weapons would be in the range of 5D+1 damage.

7.62mm weapons would be in the 6D+1 range for damage.

For reference, EABAv2 pegs the M4A1 5.56mm at 4d+1 and the M14 DMR at 4d+2.

 

As I'm looking at it, that seems to imply that it is more the Body Points formula that is the thing that is throwing me. Okay.

 

Are there any hidden things that I'm missing with regards to damage that might come to bite me if I tinker with the Body Point formula?

 

Another question...

 

Are there any settings that do a particularly good job of introducing genre-specific mechanics?

 

For example, I took a gander at d6 Horror and was a little bit disappointed because their genre-specific rules consisted solely of "sanity" mechanics, which for me falls into the Call of Cthulu approach to horror. (Necessary, but not genre-defining.)

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You're right. I think that I had a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that an "average" character with 2D in Physique end sup with 30 body points, while you're M-9 is averaging 11-12. That's just shy of three hits, which seems quite a bit.

 

Actually, three shots until dead isn't that bad, especially considering it's a pistol.

 

Most people don't realize how many people actually survive shootings every year, or that survive them for a while, only to bleed out later on. Instant kills are not all that common from bullets, unless they are in the head. Television and movies with the "one shot kill" doesn't quite accurately reflect what really happens with bullets.

 

Now when you move up to rifle rounds, it's much more likely that one shot could significantly drop a person. If a "typical" person is 2D, and a bullet does 5D+1 or 6D+1, you are looking at a pretty significant chunk of Body Points from a single shot.

 

I will also say that I grant added damage base on "quality of shot". For every 3 points the shooter rolls above the target's dodge, +1 point of damage is applied.

 

An example: Soldier fires rifle at Enemy. Enemy rolls to dodge, getting a 12. Soldier rolls to hit, and gets a 20. That is a difference of 8, or two complete sets of 3 (not quite 3 sets). Thus the damage of the shot (base of 5D+1) is now 5D+3.

 

Damage is rolled, getting a 18. Add the 3 on for a total of 21. That's one shot doing 21 Body Point loss on a character who may only have 30 (or less) Body Points. Using the above chart I provided, that would be down into the Incapacitated category. The Enemy is knocked out for 1Dx5 rounds and when he comes to, he is -3D to all rolls. Just a couple more points lost and he will be in the Mortally Wounded category and start bleeding out.

 

The "quality of shot" really benefits the people who decide to shoot just a couple of times rather than taking all sorts of multiple actions. One player, playing an archer, soon realized that while her character COULD fire 6 arrows at 6 different targets, sometimes if she wanted to make sure she killed the target, she would shoot once or twice at most. With an NPC dodging at 3D or so and a heroic player character rolling 10D or so, the hit roll may well be significantly higher than the dodge roll, meaning a lot of extra damage. This reflects a skilled shooter knowing where to hit the target to do the most damage (or a lucky shot doing more damage to a person, in the case of the Wild Die going crazy with 6s)

 

 

In terms of hidden things you might be missing by reducing Body Points:

Well, the biggest one is you may be taking away the "heroic" nature of a player character. I guess if you want to run a game where any character can catch the "bullet with their name on it" and be dead with a single shot, and your players don't mind, then that's fine. But most people understand that when you're playing a cinematic game, you need to have some things BE cinematic, and one shot kills on Player Characters isn't usually conducive to cinematic feel. The player characters are typically those people who "rise above the mundane people", they are people who become more skilled and do more daring things. That may be less likely if the PCs a dying left and right. Nothing can kill the drive of a player more than having to make up a new character every other game session.

 

If you REALLY want a grim, gritty feel where death sits in every barrel of every weapon, then go ahead and lower the Body Points. If you do, though, you'll want to move the emphasis of the game AWAY from action and place it more into skill based challenges. Have the PCs solving mysteries, hacking computers, and performing more "white collar" activity where fortunes are made or lost electronically rather than in actual bank heists or burglaries. Don't throw potentially dangerous things at the players every game session, as each time you do it could be the quick end to a character they may have been playing for a bit and be invested in. Throw in action only when it's REALLY important and greatly emphasizes the dire nature of the situation. Watch the television show "Scorpion" for ideas on how to have challenges without having action with shooting or fights.

 

Beyond that, there is not any other hidden facets. Player characters simply become much more fragile and expendable. Non player characters, already generally having less Body Points due to lower attribute levels, will be even more fragile.

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Well, the biggest one is you may be taking away the "heroic" nature of a player character. I guess if you want to run a game where any character can catch the "bullet with their name on it" and be dead with a single shot, and your players don't mind, then that's fine. But most people understand that when you're playing a cinematic game, you need to have some things BE cinematic, and one shot kills on Player Characters isn't usually conducive to cinematic feel. The player characters are typically those people who "rise above the mundane people", they are people who become more skilled and do more daring things. That may be less likely if the PCs a dying left and right. Nothing can kill the drive of a player more than having to make up a new character every other game session.

 

If you REALLY want a grim, gritty feel where death sits in every barrel of every weapon, then go ahead and lower the Body Points. If you do, though, you'll want to move the emphasis of the game AWAY from action and place it more into skill based challenges. Have the PCs solving mysteries, hacking computers, and performing more "white collar" activity where fortunes are made or lost electronically rather than in actual bank heists or burglaries. Don't throw potentially dangerous things at the players every game session, as each time you do it could be the quick end to a character they may have been playing for a bit and be invested in. Throw in action only when it's REALLY important and greatly emphasizes the dire nature of the situation. Watch the television show "Scorpion" for ideas on how to have challenges without having action with shooting or fights.

 

Which can be a fine way to run a game, if you like gritty... the old Gangbusters system was murderous, but we didn't really understand it as teenagers... a lot of time waiting for characters in the hospital :) Made for tough adventure design, leaving all these breaks in the story for recuperation.

 

The freedom to vary the wound levels is actually one thing I really like about using d6. Giving mooks fewer wound levels really helps stage combat (although of course said mooks can still get lucky with the wild dice!). I always thought HP worked well in the old D&D versions but I don't miss them when running other systems.

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Actually, three shots until dead isn't that bad, especially considering it's a pistol.

It's the problem when dealing with almost any damage system--finding the middle ground between "realism" and playability while trying not to pay too much attention to the extremes (e.g., killing yourself by shooting yourself in the foot, or surviving a fall from an airplane).

 

Thus when I say that I feel that three average shots is a little bit too much in terms of a knee-jerk reaction, it's referring to where I'm pegging that middle ground rather than really a reference to "realism."

 

Well, the biggest one is you may be taking away the "heroic" nature of a player character.

Yeah, this is one of those ones that could be a feature if the number of body points was partially dependent upon the power level of the campaign. Personally I tend to prefer things a little bit gritty, but I guess I would have to experiment with the numbers unless someone has a ready guideline? (I'm thinking of a sort of guideline based upon campaign tone and power level.)

 

I guess if you want to run a game where any character can catch the "bullet with their name on it" and be dead with a single shot, and your players don't mind, then that's fine.

See the above, but for the sake of clarity let me state that this is not something that I'm necessarily after.

 

I could, for example, see a Physique roll and adding 5 being playable and gritty, but perhaps too gritty for my liking. +10 seems that it might be sweet level (average 17) and then going up from there as you went for more and more cinematic elements. Of course, this is just me eyeballing it and the campaign that I have in mind would be all about augments to up your survivability through alternate means (cybernetic, bioware, gene-engineering, magic etc.).

 

I could also see +15 but... yeah. +10 or +15 look like it would work. The former for a "street level" cyberpunk campaign, and maybe upping it for something a bit more "heroic"?

 

Nothing can kill the drive of a player more than having to make up a new character every other game session.

Amen to that. My personal sweet spot is to invest a great deal in character generation, so this was one of those things that always annoyed the heck out of me. (Especially when the GM was of the bent of just throwing the book at you and expecting you to filter through all the options on your own.)

 

Watch the television show "Scorpion" for ideas on how to have challenges without having action with shooting or fights.

I hadn't heard of that show but I'll be checking it out if I can find it on a streaming service.

 

Also, thanks for the advice. I'm familiar with those approaches but it never hurts to be reminded of them, especially with a new game system (or an old game system that you're coming back to).

 

I always thought HP worked well in the old D&D versions but I don't miss them when running other systems.

I don't mind the wounds but I have a problem with body resistance rolls and have done since Shadowrun 2e. Dark Heresy, the Warhammer 40,000 game, just broke me of it even more.

Edited by Kage2020
Removed an irrelevant bit that sounded off-kilter to my ears.

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The more the merrier, I say. ^_^

 

 

 

So that's two for "buckets of dice" rolling--fair enough.

 

I guess I'll see how it goes, but in many ways the wild die+mod column reminds me of EABAv2's "Taking 2s," which I always felt was a great way to keep the gaming going unless you really needed to roll the dice.

 

 

When you put it like that it sounds less appealing. ;) Seriously, though, the body resistance just never seems to work for me be it in Shadowrun or, say, Dark Heresy.

 

With that said, I'm used to HP mechanics so I'll probably stick with that. At the same time, I'm fond of the idea of a certain proportion of your Body Points counting as a "wound" (or whatever) showing that it is was a significant amount of damage that might have some complications. (I'm thinking of the mechanics from Pendragon as I type this, but I'm sure that it shows up elsewhere too in various forms (e.g. GURPS' crippling injuries).

 

Its whatever you and your table prefer. I don't really care for hit points, but I don't think most of my players have a strong opinion either, so it works. If one of them ran d6 and wanted to use Wound Points, I think I'd be fine with that, so its really a matter of preference.

 

If you want to keep the wound penalties with a hit point-style mechanic, what Grimace mentioned should do that. Alternatively, you could just move a character up a level on the Wound Level system every time they reached a certain multiple of Wound Points taken/lost. I'd suggest starting out at an average Physique roll (3xdice+pips) for each "level" - with 3D+1 in Physique, you'd be "Stunned" after taking 10 (3x3+1) damage, "Wounded" after 20, and so on. So, your maximum Wound Points would always be 6 x this threshold (Dead being the sixth Wound Level). I'd definitely have to play around with it after getting some gameplay experience to see how it works in game, though.

 

Another potential concern with D6 that I've thought of since my last post is the lack of a mechanical drawback for armor. Arguably, this is true for a lot of systems, outside of those pulling from D&D, where some characters just can't/shouldn't wear armor or it becomes prohibitive to gain the ability to use armor. As with a lot of games, in-universe reasons are the main limiting factor for armor use. Without those, you get everyone wearing the best armor they can find quickly, in my experience. Since you've talked about using the system to run Shadowrun/Earthdawn, I'm assuming you have an idea of how to handle this already (social/availability limitations being the main thing keeping rampant armor use in check). Not sure if this'd become a problem with Earthdawn - I've only had short campaigns in that, but I get the impression that actual, physical armor becomes only marginally beneficial once a character progresses a few circles into their discipline.

 

As to the magic system, I have to confess that I haven't fully read everything in your other thread yet. My suggestion is to figure out exactly what you want the magic system to do - lore-wise and mechanics-wise, and then you can build from D6's mechanics to achieve that. I'm familiar with the systems from Earthdawn and Shadowrun, and I have no clue what I'd build as a middle ground there.

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If you want to keep the wound penalties with a hit point-style mechanic, what Grimace mentioned should do that.

Indeed, it's a mechanic that I favour from another system so I'll certainly be bringing it in. Otherwise body points end up being a "hero buffer," or ablative hero points that stop you from serious consequences... until they don't. So thanks all.

 

Another potential concern with D6 that I've thought of since my last post is the lack of a mechanical drawback for armor.

My concern with the armour was initially less the consequences and more the fact that it's a dynamically generated (rolled) number, but I've got a solution for that borrowed from elsewhere.

 

Since you've talked about using the system to run Shadowrun/Earthdawn, I'm assuming you have an idea of how to handle this already (social/availability limitations being the main thing keeping rampant armor use in check).

I think that the setting limitations (or encouragement, depending on the setting) is usually more than sufficient in most cases. For the sake of simplicity, if you would otherwise be unused to wearing body armour and that armour is inherently bulky, I would be tempted to levy a -1D pool modifier until they got used to it (which I wouldn't be surprised would be "until it was forgotten about").

 

Not sure if this'd become a problem with Earthdawn - I've only had short campaigns in that, but I get the impression that actual, physical armor becomes only marginally beneficial once a character progresses a few circles into their discipline.

If the Disciplines come with some kind of Talent that allows you to avoid or otherwise armour yourself against damage? Yeah, they can trump physical armour because, well, cool. On the other hand, I tend to have a slightly "grittier" approach, so wearing armour--any armour--is probably better than nothing. After all, some of those more powerful abilities come with some form of cost that you might not be able to pay at a given point. Then it's useful to have something between you and the thing that is trying to hurt you. If distance and/or a solid wall is not available, armour can be darned useful.

 

In short, I don't think that it's going to be a huge problem.

 

As to the magic system, I have to confess that I haven't fully read everything in your other thread yet. My suggestion is to figure out exactly what you want the magic system to do - lore-wise and mechanics-wise, and then you can build from D6's mechanics to achieve that. I'm familiar with the systems from Earthdawn and Shadowrun, and I have no clue what I'd build as a middle ground there.

No worries. Get to it if you can (or can be bothered). I haven't actually taken the time to detail quite what I'm after, yet, since it's an attempt to merge the two different magic systems and take it in its own direction, too.

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