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skeloric

Everyone knows how I hate PDFs but...

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And only reach .01% of the population who actually want it in a substandard format.

 

Here's a thought -- how about you never pull out "hard numbers" if you cannot back it up with research. Or, at the very least your estimates should be based on something close to actual knowledge.

 

You are perhaps one of the least "business aware" people I've ever read posts about, and yet you continue to post as if you had a some kind of valid opinion.

 

Lets just put this little bit to rest -- you are NOT entitled to express your opinion. You are entitled to use your informed opinion as a basis for intelligence conversation and debate. Anything else is trolling.

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Question tho... In the past, I had heard that it's legal to own a PDF of something that you already own in print. If this is correct, is there some way to prove to these PDF publishers that you, in fact, own the book and simply want a PDF for reference/backup?

 

Well there is nothing stopping you from making a PDF backup of a book you own already as long as it for your personnel use.

If you wanted to get a PDF from the publisher it may be a different story, asking them here is the best option. Some may say OK and send you a free copy as you already have supported them by buying the print copy and some may say buy it again.

 

All depends on who you talk to and how they feel on the topic.

 

Rog.

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The law specifically allows YOU to make a electronic backup of physical copies your already own. It does not give you the right to get that backup through improper channels and certainly does not give you the right to require a publisher provide you with that backup copy.

 

So basically, if you own the book, you may scan your copy of that book and you may only keep that copy as long as you physically maintain possession of that book.

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While print is really the best option (in my opinion), I can see how .pdfs can generate money for game companies which of course keep them in business and keeps them creating games.

 

So what if maybe a low number of people buys .pdf games (I dont know the numbers exactly), the profit margin for .pdfs is much higher then print games and if they sell enough .pdfs they can use some of the money to put the game out in print as well.

 

A win-win situation for gamers

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Also when your making the product for POD and normal print you end up with a high quality PDF, so why not make it as a PDF sale as well.

It only takes a few modifications like not embedding the fonts and scaling the size/quailty of images and its ready to go.

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they can use some of the money to put the game out in print as well.

 

A win-win situation for gamers

When it finally reaches the printed version is when I finally buy it, so that is the only way I'd "win".

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There is also the point the when a company starts up its easier and cheaper for them to do PDF first and then move into print.

 

PDF sales make some money and then this can be turned into paying for print versions, there is also a huge advantage with PDF when considering errata and updates - you just edit the file and upload again making it free to customers with print this is nearly impossible to do without making a new version of it.

Also taking a laptop with PDF's on it to a con is much easier and lighter than a stack of books :)

 

That said yesterday I brought 3 PDF's and a printed copy of one of the same PDF's, I like both and see no problem with buying either.

For me its about use and convience, I love to play with a book but find that a PDF accessable to me on my laptop when working a real bonus (Traveller has a LOT of material to cross reference the PDF's from the FFE CD's and other companies make this so easy)

 

Each to there own I guess :)

 

Rog.

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My problem is that to read a PDF properly, I have to enlarge the image until I can't see the entire page properly.

The real book just moves closer to my face if needed.

Books operate independently of technology, which is a benefit to books in which PDFs can never compete.

PDFs also give me agonizing migraines if I try dealing with them too long (from the issues with reading them).

For me, the real book has no competition.

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Even though I agree with you about the part that .pdfs make it easier for game companies, I don't like nor buy .pdfs anymore.

 

I found searching them slow which slows down the game, I don't want to haul a laptop to a game and I find books a better value for me.

 

I guess they work for some people but print will always be king over .pdfs

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When I use PDF's I always edit then it have bookmarks to the important parts/tables for speed of use.

PDF's are still lagging in that a lot of them havent really pushed the limits as to what they can do - bookmarks and links are things that should be a must.

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Can I be duplicitous and say that I want both? :D

 

Hardcopy for:

Portability (Taking to game sessions)

Easy readability

Visual/Tactile goodness

 

Softcopy for:

Electronic searching

Easy cut/paste to other electronic formats (not piracy!)

Printing handouts/excerpts

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As stated before, I prefer to have a physical copy of something, if available.

 

I did however like the fact that the printed D6 Powers book comes with a free PDF download available. The book, which has a lot of artwork, is black-and-white, while the PDF is in full-color. I'd prefer the physical book itself be in color because I likes me color RPG books, but I understand that black-and-white helps to minimize the production cost.

 

I do plan on printing and physically binding some of the other PDFs I have. Fed Ex Kinkos will print and bind PDF files for a low cost, and you can even e-mail them the file so you don't have to save it to disc or anything.

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I do plan on printing and physically binding some of the other PDFs I have. Fed Ex Kinkos will print and bind PDF files for a low cost, and you can even e-mail them the file so you don't have to save it to disc or anything.

 

How low of a cost? I have a few Fed Ex Kinkos around. Would it be around the cost of a print book? (If you include buying the .pdf and printing it)? Cost more? Less?

 

Just need a rough idea. This could change my opinion somewhat on .pdfs

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How low of a cost? I have a few Fed Ex Kinkos around. Would it be around the cost of a print book? (If you include buying the .pdf and printing it)? Cost more? Less?

 

Just need a rough idea. This could change my opinion somewhat on .pdfs

 

I looked into the options a few months ago but haven't done it yet. The cost is defintely less, but the bindings will not be as pretty as normal printed books. The binding they have available that is closest to a real book comes with a warning that if the book is going to be read more than once it will possible start to become unbound. :eek:

 

So you can get that PDF printed for cheap, but if you want it bound for the practical use of reading it and referring to it multiple times, then it won't look good on your book shelf.

 

I spent a lot of my weekend deciding on how to combine some PDFs, editing page order, deciding on color/greayscale for certain pages, creating covers, etc. for a few of my PDFs. I hope it will be this week, but whenever I can come up with final decisions and get to Fed Ex, I'll let you all know more about it here.

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Well I am sure one of the good things about sprial bidings from places like Kinkos is unlike normal bindings opening the pages all the way doesn't break the binding like it does on a traditional game books.

 

I am going to look at the .pdfs I have, find one and take it to Fed Ex Kinkos and see how it works kind of as a test.

 

Thanks for the information

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My problem is that to read a PDF properly, I have to enlarge the image until I can't see the entire page properly.

The real book just moves closer to my face if needed.

Books operate independently of technology, which is a benefit to books in which PDFs can never compete.

PDFs also give me agonizing migraines if I try dealing with them too long (from the issues with reading them).

For me, the real book has no competition.

 

And now we see the real reason you don't like PDFs... That you suffer headaches trying to read them suggests a few problems that have nothing to do with PDFs. Things like the lighting vs your monitor can cause headaches (flicker rate of the fluorescent lights vs a CRT) as can running the monitor at a lower resolution (especially LCDs as that causes the screen to become fuzzy due to interpolation of pixels). Or you might need glasses (or a better prescription if you already have them).

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And now we see the real reason you don't like PDFs... That you suffer headaches trying to read them suggests a few problems that have nothing to do with PDFs. Things like the lighting vs your monitor can cause headaches (flicker rate of the fluorescent lights vs a CRT) as can running the monitor at a lower resolution (especially LCDs as that causes the screen to become fuzzy due to interpolation of pixels). Or you might need glasses (or a better prescription if you already have them).

 

Its the perspective of the PDF to a large degree.

To get the PDF large enough to see properly, I must also lose most of the "page" to the edges of the monitor which also annoys annoys ANNOYS.

If I were handed a book with paper inside and on the inside cover was an SD card slot and the PDFs could then be installed into the book so that the pages changed appearance to reflect the contents.

Not like the "digital book reader" devices they have now but like a REAL book.

This would change most of my negativity towards PDFs.

The thing would have to cost about $10 to purchase as well.

Also, being 8.5" x 11" is vital and capable of using all of it like a REAL book would.

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Its the perspective of the PDF to a large degree.

To get the PDF large enough to see properly, I must also lose most of the "page" to the edges of the monitor which also annoys annoys ANNOYS.

If I were handed a book with paper inside and on the inside cover was an SD card slot and the PDFs could then be installed into the book so that the pages changed appearance to reflect the contents.

Not like the "digital book reader" devices they have now but like a REAL book.

This would change most of my negativity towards PDFs.

The thing would have to cost about $10 to purchase as well.

Also, being 8.5" x 11" is vital and capable of using all of it like a REAL book would.

 

I feel your pain, Skel. I have horrendous vision (even with the best possible "correction") and reading PDFs on a screen give me headaches, too.

 

To get the text to the size that I can read it means that I would have to zoom in to the point where one line does not fit on the screen (L to R). So, I'd constantly have to pan the screen L to R to read each sentence.

 

Whereas, with a book, I just put it closer to my face and move my eyes back and forth.

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I feel your pain, Skel. I have horrendous vision (even with the best possible "correction") and reading PDFs on a screen give me headaches, too.

 

To get the text to the size that I can read it means that I would have to zoom in to the point where one line does not fit on the screen (L to R). So, I'd constantly have to pan the screen L to R to read each sentence.

 

Whereas, with a book, I just put it closer to my face and move my eyes back and forth.

 

Yep, its the limitation of technology.

It simply cannot yet achieve an improvement over something that has not required fixing for at least 300 years -- the basic physical object of a book.

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Skeloric, as someone in the technology/IT field I will say that I agree that as a society as a whole (and pretty much the entire world) is way over dependent on technology.

 

Let's face it, who needs nukes when someone can create a device that emits EMP (Electromagnetic Pulses) that will shut down power, computers as well as any other devices that have electronic components in them.

 

I wouldn't have the slightest idea how to create such a device, but I am sure there are people out there somewhere who do.

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I have a 21 in LCD monitor, makes PDF reading not a problem

 

And I like being able to take a pile of books on one laptop (though the nuisance factor involved means I normally take the books Im sure Ill need in book form, and the laptop for all those 'just in case' books)

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