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This question could be reated to scale but please feel free to respond to any aspect. d20 has character/creature "size" with Medium for humans size and Small for smaller than humans. Being Small provides advantages such as being more difficult to hit in combat and being able to more easily hide and sneak, but disadvantages such as lifting and carrying weight limits being 3/4 of a medium character. I think there are limits to weapon usage based on character size. I've also noticed that Small characters tend to have a Move rate equal to 2/3 of the standard medium.

 

In what all ways should this translate to Star Wars D6, say for a humanoid character (fairly proportional to humans) only smaller in size (such as Ewoks or Mrlssi)?

 

Whether through the use of scale rules or not, small characters should definitely be harder to hit in combat. And I don't know if scale should also apply the same way to Hide/Sneak checks, but one way or another it should generally be harder for other characters to perceive Small characters. I would think that there should be some limits for small characters as far was equipment and weapon usage. The lifting and carrying aspect could just be represented by a lower maximum strength. And Move should have a lower base and maximum.

 

I am designing a avian humanoid PC species that are mostly human sized, but with a minority of its members "small" in scale, and I thought that the player choosing this species for his PC can as an option "buy" the advantage of being small from a point cost perspective.

 

So if Strength and Move just have lower mins and maxes so they are removed from the equation, what is the net result of a character being small? Is it an net advantage, net disadvantage or is it even?

 

What all advantages and disadvantages should it come with?

 

Should the scale of the galaxy be considered as a story factor type of disadvantage? (meaning most things available for sentient use in the galaxy are designed for roughly human-sized characters)

 

What would the limits be for what type of equipment and weapons a "small" character can use?

 

I was thinking the small members of the species would be about 1 meter which is around the average for the species that are sized as small in d20. I would like there to be consecutive height ranges for both sizes of the species. What would be a sensible cut-off between small and standard characters in height?

 

Just the same, what should be the max Strength and Move for small characters?

 

Thanks for any ideas or suggestions!

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You've got so many variables in that set of questions, it'll be tough to tackle them all.

 

Yes, it's scale, but it's also the things you mention, such as Strength and Move and so on.

 

You'll have to be creative if you use Star Wars R&E scale system. You could use the D6 Core books scale system (of a flat modifier) and it might work better, but it still might be possible with the "added dice" method.

 

Using R&E method, you could make smaller character -1D in scale. So they -1D when resisting damage. When they dodge, they get +1D to Dodge. Same goes for Sneak, because they're smaller.

Using D6 Core books method, you could make them a scale 2 or 3 (depending on size). Again, when resisting damage they subtract the scale difference from their resistance total. When dodging (and you could apply it to sneaking) you would add the scale difference. So against normal people, they'd have +3 to Dodge and Sneak rolls.

 

As far as the cost...well, depends on where you put the size increments for reduction of STR and Move. If you keep it about on par with the bonus, I'd make the cost really cheap to be "small". If you don't penalize STR or Move too much, you might want to boost the cost of becoming "small" by a couple points or so. Since I don't use "purchased" things like that, I can't give you an idea on cost, but you should be able to figure out what is low cost and what is higher.

 

Hope this helps some.

 

 

For their STR I'd subtract off 1D at least for each increment of size reduction. So they're half the size of a human, their max STR would be 3D (or lower). I'd drop their movement by 2 or 3 for each increment of size reduction as well. So a 1 meter tall alien might have a Move of only 7. Half the size again, and it would drop to a 4 or even a 3.

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I don't have my books with me, but I believe that the F/A/S core books have a "Size" disadvantage that takes most of these into account.

 

For a pure SWd6 R&E ruleset, races like the Mrlssi have what you described: lower Move min/max, lower Str min/max. I don't recall any that have a bonus to hide/sneak based on their size, but it's certainly possible. Likewise an increased difficulty to hit could be used along with a restriction against using Rifle-sized or larger weapons & equipment.

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For things like Ewoks and such which are small but close enough small I won't change anything. If R2D2 and Chewie and such are 'human size' then so are Ewoks

 

I do however use 'Fox' scale in my games for things which are roughly the same size as a fox, it is -2d scale (in keeping with 2e REs scale in increments of 2 dice)

 

I usually require like double cost and decreased availability for Fox scale weapons, and the scale value effects damage and such

 

(A Fox scale generic blaster rifle does 5d damage like any other generic blaster rifle, but a human gets +2d in soak)

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Great! Some of the guys I was hoping would reply to this thread.

 

I don't have my books with me, but I believe that the F/A/S core books have a "Size" disadvantage that takes most of these into account.

 

I forgot to mention that I looked there. There is a Size Advantage on p.30, and it says it can be smaller or larger - they both are considered advantages. The only mechanic it gives itself is a scale modifier per rank. So if I understand that correctly, small would have the advantage of being harder to hit but the disadvantage of being weaker in resisting damage, and large would have disadvantage of being easier to hit with the advantage of being stronger in resisting damage. For both you gain an advantage and a disadvantage. That makes it sound like both are a wash (no net gain or loss) that should be free.

 

It goes on to say that the disadvantage Hinderance: Reduced Toughness may go along with the smaller size advantage for a very thin person, and the Hardiness Special Ability may go alone with larger size advantage for a very large person. Likewise it says that larger characters may have the Hypermovement Special Ability, while smaller characters may have the Hinderance: Shorter Stride Disadvantage.

 

...Likewise an increased difficulty to hit could be used along with a restriction against using Rifle-sized or larger weapons & equipment.

 

Logical. How about two-handed normal scale weapons? I guess common sense would say no long melee weapons for small characters. Yoda had a slightly smaller lightsaber hilt and most importantly a shorter blade in the Prequels.

 

For things like Ewoks and such which are small but close enough small I won't change anything. If R2D2 and Chewie and such are 'human size' then so are Ewoks

 

I'm with you on Wookiees and such. I think the beginning of large scale characters might be Herglics which are pretty huge beings. Hmm, I'll have to think about that, but I don't want to get ahead of myself. Kal, I like your spirit of simplicity which is why I didn't want to use scale rules per se for small characters (see below).

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You've got so many variables in that set of questions, it'll be tough to tackle them all.

 

Yes, it's scale, but it's also the things you mention, such as Strength and Move and so on.

 

You'll have to be creative if you use Star Wars R&E scale system. You could use the D6 Core books scale system (of a flat modifier) and it might work better, but it still might be possible with the "added dice" method.

 

Using R&E method, you could make smaller character -1D in scale. So they -1D when resisting damage. When they dodge, they get +1D to Dodge. Same goes for Sneak, because they're smaller.

Using D6 Core books method, you could make them a scale 2 or 3 (depending on size). Again, when resisting damage they subtract the scale difference from their resistance total. When dodging (and you could apply it to sneaking) you would add the scale difference. So against normal people, they'd have +3 to Dodge and Sneak rolls.

 

As far as the cost...well, depends on where you put the size increments for reduction of STR and Move. If you keep it about on par with the bonus, I'd make the cost really cheap to be "small". If you don't penalize STR or Move too much, you might want to boost the cost of becoming "small" by a couple points or so. Since I don't use "purchased" things like that, I can't give you an idea on cost, but you should be able to figure out what is low cost and what is higher.

 

Hope this helps some.

 

 

For their STR I'd subtract off 1D at least for each increment of size reduction. So they're half the size of a human, their max STR would be 3D (or lower). I'd drop their movement by 2 or 3 for each increment of size reduction as well. So a 1 meter tall alien might have a Move of only 7. Half the size again, and it would drop to a 4 or even a 3.

 

Yes, that does help a lot. First of all, thanks for the suggested guidelines for max STR and Move, but for simpliciy's sake, I am only going to have one size reduction increment available. And as far as my particular scale rules choice, Grimace you've already sold me on the general concept of going back to die caps. But as far as this topic, the deeper scale perspective you give is just the type of thinking that was part of what I was looking for.

 

I don't want to actually use scale rules for this per se, but I want to factor scale considerations into the rules of the advantage/disadvantage. The main reason is that I not only think that smaller character would generally have a disadvantage for strength to resist damage, but as handled a different way by d20, lower lifting and carrying weight limits are another aspect. So that would be a lower Lifting skill in D6. So it seems it would be simpler to just have them have a lower max Strength attribute which would incorporate things like a lower base damage resistance, Lifting ability, Jumping distance, etc. And if they are already going to have a lower max STR, then having them have an additional penalty for damage resistance on top of that just seems to be double dipping and overkill for what I was going for.

 

And I guess I shoud clarify here about alien species and "point builds." I don't use a point build system either. But I do think of chosing a PC race like taking a "package" except that all the packages are equated to 4D is skill dice. Everyone gets "4D". If a species doesn't have a net 4D worth of advantages, disadvantages and special abilties, then it is balanced out by them getting the difference in bonus skill dice (Humans get 4D in bonus skill dice for any skills). This is on top of the starting skill dice every character gets, so yes, PCs in my game tend to start out a little higher caliber than RAW. But it also evens out some aliens with humans and other species that have no advantages and special abilties. (And before you say that Humans have the story factor of being the majority species in the galaxy and the only non-discriminate species in the Empire, please consider that I already have the issue of almost no players wanting to play humans as it is, and all-alien PC groups tend to not be able to blend in as much.)

 

So I'm asking about value of being small for two reasons. One for small PC races in general. But also for the one species that is an exception to what I wrote in the previous paragraph. There were so many bird-like abilities that I wanted my avian species to have that it would be way, way over-powering to have them all. So I thought I would have a list of possible racial abilities with different dice values so that a player making a character of this species could create his PC's 4D or 5D package (because they can use 1D of their other skill dice towards abilities if they wish.) These include a couple racial disadvantages that give extra dice as well. One of the possibilities I wanted available is for a PC to be Small, whether it ends up a net advantage or disadvantage.

 

I'm not asking for exact die value because that would require you to know the whole scale of my abilities system and all my other species packages for frame of reference. I can come up with the specifics. But I'm stilll not sure if being small is a net plus or minus?

 

So the lower STR attribute max I mentioned above is balanced out by the allocation of other attributes (18D total) so we don't have to consider that. But I guess a lower move should be considered because that is a disadvantage to being small. And even if it is just GM-determined modifiers for attacks against the small character and hides/sneak, those are advantages any way you slice it.

 

Grimace, what I think I'm reading from you is that being small is a slight advantage?

Edited by Whill

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My suggestion for a small character at first was a scale difference. However, after some internal testing with the SWD6 I am writing up, I am finding that this is a little more difficult and adds unnecessary rules. Instead, I am doing a mod of the D20 to fit with the D6.

 

So, the D20 benefits of a small character are “As Small creatures, Ewoks gain a +1 size bonus to their Reflex Defense and a +5 size bonus on Stealth checks. However, their lifting and carrying limits are three - quarters of those of Medium characters.” So, this tells me a couple of things, but it is not all. Small characters also gain a benefit from cover, take a penalty on larger weapons, and movement through occupied spaces.

 

So, first of all, I agree that a smaller character should have a lower Strength and Move. Wookiees have a higher Strength, so it just fits in that regard.

 

If you use the passive defense rating from D6 Space, then you should add +5 to the character’s passive defense value. This effectively adds a full difficulty level to hit the target. For me, I add the Defense Value to the range difficulty for a target not reacting. Otherwise, just add +5 to the difficulty to hit the target.

 

A character would receive +1D to their stealth checks.

 

Small characters should gain one more level of cover from the usual objects. One quarter cover would provide half cover. Half cover would provide three-quarters cover. Three quarters cover would provide full cover.

 

Large two-handed weapons (such as rifles) are considered unwieldy to a small character. Raise their difficulty by one level, at a minimum. If a weapon is normally unwieldy, such as repeaters, then it is too large for the character. Likewise, the character should treat light armors as medium and medium armors as heavy as far as the penalties go. Or double the Dexterity penalties.

 

Finally, I would say that a small character can move through an occupied space without penalty. This could be a -1 Move for moving through an unoccupied space, but the small character wouldn’t get it.

 

In total, a character should not come with a natural advantage or disadvantage. The character is slower than and not as strong as a normal character (thus having less Wound Points). That should be offset by their ability to sneak and be a harder target.

 

Smaller characters may need some special items to do the things normal characters can do, but only in the way of a few hundred credits (Wedge had prosthetics for his Ewok, Lieutenant Ketch, persona in the TIE Interceptor).

 

Heights should be akin to normal for Ewoks and such… about 1 meter with no more than 1.25 meters. As for the max Strength and move… I’d go with ¾ human normal (Strength 1D-3D. Move: 7-10)

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Thank you Flagwaver. I find your multiple concise points to be extremely helpful.

 

The reason I don't think lower STR should be factored into whether being small is a net advantage or disadvantage is because any player can choose for his a lower STR (down to the species min or 2D whichever is higher) for any species and that is not considered a disadvantage because he gets more attribute dice to allocate to the other attributes. And regarding this species, if the player is concerned about a low STR max for being small, it is only an option so he can choose to be be normal size. And ultimately, he can choose another non-small species if he wants to. I've already stated that I'm not going to use scale rules on top of this special ability rule I am devising for being small, and why.

 

Lower overall STR already takes care of lower Damage Resistance, lower lifting ability and lower jumping distance, all realistic ability considerations for smaller beings, but Lower STR means higher other attributes, so I call this a wash.

 

Let's look at what's left, first the disadvantages. We all agree in lower base and max Move (from the smaller stride from the shorter legs) is a realistic disadvantage. There are obvious large weapon and equipment dificulties or flat-out limitations based on size (reference Yoda's lightsaber blade and Wicket's spear). And I threw in general difficulties that the many things in the galaxy are not designed for small-sized beings so there is a little disavantage there. And hey, with being small there would be more occasions when you just can't see over something in front of you! My wife used to watch TV shows about real-life humans that are "less than average height" as some of them they prefer to be called, and those shows do provide some insight to the experiences of little people in our big world. I would think that many things would translate to the Galactic Empire.

 

On the plus side of being small, we've got the cover advantage, general defensive bonus, hide/sneak bonus, and the greater ability to move through smaller spaces.

 

If we take all the effects of having a lower STR out of the equation, would being small be a net advantage, net disadvantage, or a wash?

 

Thanks.

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Overall, I think being smaller, (and not just a smaller size of something that can be bigger, like a child vs. adult human) would be "wash". I don't assume it to be a disadvantage, and it could only be considered an "advantage" if you don't take into account that most things are created for the general "human sized" population. If the small character is in an area where everything he gets is all appropriately sized to him, then definitely an advantage. If the small character is in an area where everything is larger (normal) and it's not taken into account for the small character, then advantage. If the small character is in an area where everything is larger (normal) and that's taken into account, then I consider it a "wash". The advtanages of being smaller balance out with the reductions, creating a wash.

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If we take all the effects of having a lower STR out of the equation, would being small be a net advantage, net disadvantage, or a wash?

 

It think it would be a wash. The character would have a higher level of difficulty to using “normal”-sized technology. Large weapons (two-handed weapons) are unusable but the character is harder to hit. Vehicles are unable to be used properly (i.e. the Ewok couldn’t reach the leg controls) but the character gets a better bonus from cover.

 

The only plus would be that the character can sneak better, but this is offset by the lower Move.

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