Jump to content
D6 Online 3.0
TinMan

The Ongoing Gulf Spill and getting off Oil, IS this going to Pee Pee off enough ppl ?

Recommended Posts

So apparently (according to various experts) the following is OR probably is going to happen because of this BP Oil spill:

 

 

The up to 14 Hurricanes that are projected to pass through the gulf this season will: One scatter the oil around Florida and up the Eastern seaboard (Also maybe hit Cuba). If that happens, kiss A LOT of beach front property away for a few years, not to mention the MAJOR blow this will be to the fisheries and species too (as in wiping them out for a very long time).

 

And two Since Hurricanes gather strength from warmer waters and there is enough Oil to cause the water in the Gulf to retain more heat than usual, this could make the projected 14 hurricanes even stronger than normal.

 

Possible Conclusion if any or all the above occurs:

 

Since this will already take YEARS to clean up and with the constant reminder that this was all caused by an Oil company! Would this not have the effect of galvanizing the US population against Oil period?

Plus the Oil company?s will no doubt continue to creep the price of gas up which will further infuriate the people effected by the spill, possibly most of the Eastern seaboard of the U.S.

 

In the end: Could this finally get the United States to really push to get the world or at least itself off Oil as the major commodity used for fuel and heat?

 

My question is: Is there a long term possibly positive out of all of this? Even if it does come at a huge cost to Humans and the environment.

Edited by TinMan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Too many politically charged answers to touch this question with a 5000ft deep oil drill.

 

The physics answer is: No, this will not remove the world's (not just the US's) addiction to oil in the slightest. Petroleum is too energy dense, inexpensive, easy to transport, easy to refine, used in too many applications for us to simply give it up cold turkey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Too many politically charged answers to touch this question with a 5000ft deep oil drill.

 

The physics answer is: No, this will not remove the world's (not just the US's) addiction to oil in the slightest. Petroleum is too energy dense, inexpensive, easy to transport, easy to refine, used in too many applications for us to simply give it up cold turkey.

 

You're right cold turkey just isn't an option with Oil.

 

I'm thinking the constant day to day effect this is going to have for years to come will at least (I hope) drive the Hybrid/Electric Auto and renewable energy industry a bit harder than if this hadn't happened.

 

Otherwise people are a lot stupider than I ever imagined possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, if someone can come along who's smarter than everyone else and discover a better alternative to oil... that person is going to be a very rich man (or woman).

 

I'm sure something new will come along.

 

Hybrid/electric cars are far from the silver bullet to our oil dependancy. When you consider the full energy cycle, most of the US's electricity production comes from... you guessed it! Petroleum and other fossil fuels (coal, in particular). So, by having electric cars the point of petroleum consumption is moved from the car to the electric power plant. Also, when you consider the full energy cycle, gasoline engines actually make better use of petroleum (are more efficient) then electric cars. But that's looking at it from a pure engineering perspective. Coal power plants are much cleaner than gasoline engines and it's easier to control emmissions from one source rather than millions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's interesting that you bring up this discussion because it ties right into what I'm developing for my Post-Apocalyptic setting "Earth Amuck"

 

What happens when our infrastructure falls to pieces? if there are no people around to drill, ship and distribute the oil, what would happen? Electricity, too! Do you realize how dependant civilization has become on electricity? We had a couple of power outages over the winter here and it was eerie sitting in my home, with no lights on and everything was quiet. What if you knew the lights were NEVER going to come back on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, if someone can come along who's smarter than everyone else and discover a better alternative to oil... that person is going to be a very rich man (or woman).

 

I'm sure something new will come along.

 

Hybrid/electric cars are far from the silver bullet to our oil dependancy. When you consider the full energy cycle, most of the US's electricity production comes from... you guessed it! Petroleum and other fossil fuels (coal, in particular). So, by having electric cars the point of petroleum consumption is moved from the car to the electric power plant. Also, when you consider the full energy cycle, gasoline engines actually make better use of petroleum (are more efficient) then electric cars. But that's looking at it from a pure engineering perspective. Coal power plants are much cleaner than gasoline engines and it's easier to control emmissions from one source rather than millions.

 

My main question here is whether this eco disaster is going to have any real effect on how we view and consume Oil.

 

I'm pretty sure the regs are going to get WAY stronger on the drilling of Oil. I'm hopping this will also stop any more movement on drilling for Oil in the Canadian Artic (if something like this happend up there UNDER the Ice we'd never clean it up.)

 

But what other effect is this Gulf spill/spew going to have?

 

As for the car issue: Are you saying that if tomorrow 90 percent of the drivers out there were driving either Electric or Hybrids instead of gas, the environment would be worse off???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As for the car issue: Are you saying that if tomorrow 90 percent of the drivers out there were driving either Electric or Hybrids instead of gas, the environment would be worse off???

 

Ceratinly not. Hybrid engines pair a standard gasoline engine with an electric motor and battery system. If 90% of all standard gasoline engines were turned into hybrids tomorrow, the amount of air pollution would be reduced. If they all turned into electric cars, all (car-generated) air pollution would be eliminated, but the subsequent increased demand on the electrical grid would require that more power plants be built. Depending on if they are coal, oil, nuclear, hydroelectric power plants, there would still be some air pollution directly resulting from electric automobiles.

 

The dirty little secret that the greenies don't want to tell you about is this: Lead-acid batteries. Instead of just ONE to start your gasoline engine, now you've got an entire BANK of lead-acid batteries in your car that works in conjunction with the electric motor. Suddenly, a traffic accident can become a real hazmat nightmare if the toxic chemicals leak from the batteries.

 

Likewise, the dirty little secret about those CFTs - Compact Flourescent Tubes everyone is being encouraged to switch to... Mercury. You should read the warning labels on those. Oh boy! If you happen to break one of those CFTs in your home... you practically have to call in the hazmat team from your local fire department. And you can't just throw them in the trash, either. (In fact, it's illegal in many states.)

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/may/01/ho-compact-bulbs-contain-mercury-must-be-recycled/

 

I'm not saying don't go buy a hybrid/electric car... I'm not saying don't go buy Compact Flourescent Lighting... I'm just saying go in with your eyes open and make sure you stay informed! Don't believe everything "Big Oil" "Big Green" or "Big Gov't" tells you. Go read things for yourself. :)

Edited by Rerun941

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ceratinly not. Hybrid engines pair a standard gasoline engine with an electric motor and battery system. If 90% of all standard gasoline engines were turned into hybrids tomorrow, the amount of air pollution would be reduced. If they all turned into electric cars, all (car-generated) air pollution would be eliminated, but the subsequent increased demand on the electrical grid would require that more power plants be built. Depending on if they are coal, oil, nuclear, hydroelectric power plants, there would still be some air pollution directly resulting from electric automobiles.

 

The dirty little secret that the greenies don't want to tell you about is this: Lead-acid batteries. Instead of just ONE to start your gasoline engine, now you've got an entire BANK of lead-acid batteries in your car that works in conjunction with the electric motor. Suddenly, a traffic accident can become a real hazmat nightmare if the toxic chemicals leak from the batteries.

 

Likewise, the dirty little secret about those CFTs - Compact Flourescent Tubes everyone is being encouraged to switch to... Mercury. You should read the warning labels on those. Oh boy! If you happen to break one of those CFTs in your home... you practically have to call in the hazmat team from your local fire department. And you can't just throw them in the trash, either. (In fact, it's illegal in many states.)

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/may/01/ho-compact-bulbs-contain-mercury-must-be-recycled/

 

I'm not saying don't go buy a hybrid/electric car... I'm not saying don't go buy Compact Flourescent Lighting... I'm just saying go in with your eyes open and make sure you stay informed! Don't believe everything "Big Oil" "Big Green" or "Big Gov't" tells you. Go read things for yourself. :)

 

 

All very true.

 

One thing I would like to see for the Hybrids and especially the Electric cars is built in solar pannels on the roof. Sure the panels probably wouldn't be able to keep your car charge all on their own but hey you go to work your car sits in the parking lot in the sun for 8 hours. I'm sure that would help take the edge off the old power bill a little.

 

 

As for my main questions what do you think the effects of this Oil spill/Spew is going to be beyond the eco and regulatory end of things?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The idea of a hurricane actually flinging oil inland is kind of funny to me. It sounds like something outrageous I'd have happen to PC's.

 

I think all this oil spill has really made me want to do is role up a new Werewolf: The Apocalypse campaign. Beyond that, it's all just one big black comedy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The idea of a hurricane actually flinging oil inland is kind of funny to me. It sounds like something outrageous I'd have happen to PC's.

 

I think all this oil spill has really made me want to do is role up a new Werewolf: The Apocalypse campaign. Beyond that, it's all just one big black comedy.

 

 

I think they mean it is going to spread it around while still remaining in the water. That we may see it lapping up on shore up the east coast and plus hitting Cuba.

 

I never thought about a hurricane(s) actually picking the oil up and spraying it over land.

 

Try getting that crap out of your clothes :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think they mean it is going to spread it around while still remaining in the water. That we may see it lapping up on shore up the east coast and plus hitting Cuba.

 

I never thought about a hurricane(s) actually picking the oil up and spraying it over land.

 

Try getting that crap out of your clothes :-)

 

Seriously, the idea is really over-the-top-funny. Imagine Katrina, but with oil...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What effects will this spill create? It'll be a whole lot harder for them to drill offshore oil in the future. That will be unfortunate. If this spill is any indication, there's plenty of oil out there, it's just getting to it (and keeping it under control when you do). I'm for drilling responsibly, including in places like ANWR (I lived in Alaska for a while, so I know that region well enough). I think that companies should definitely have better measures to handle accidents like what it going on now.

 

Will it change Americans. Nope. Not a lick.

Oil is still too ingrained into the American culture. It's ingrained into a substantial portion of the world's cultures. There's no way there's going to be a national/cultural shift just because of this. When people realize they've got to fork over umpteen tens of thousands of dollars for a new car that STILL uses gasoline and oil and start having costs of EVERYTHING go up because of the increased cost of shipping things using alternative fuels that still cost way too much, they populace will quickly overlook the negative effects of a spill like this. Think of it this way...all those people driving and flying to the coast to help defend/clean up this huge mess are getting there in vehicles powered by fossil fuels and lubricated by oil. The ships trolling in the waters to attempt in vain to contain the mess are doing it using fossil fuels. All the people who's livelihoods are being threatened, even those people who find themselves actually being saved by the ongoing calamity all use things that require fossil fuels. The shrimp/fishing ships use fuel. It's just too much a part of our society and the alternatives are still just SO darn expensive and not energy effecient enough to handle a switch even if people wanted to.

 

As Rerun said, until someone comes up with something that is as energy to quantity effecient as fossil fuels and is as cheap as fossil fuels and is in enough quantity as fossil fuels, there's always going to be a demand for them, no matter the size of the mess created.

 

So as sad as that might be, that's just the way the world is today (as well as the foreseeable future).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the end the only thing this disaster may drive is more "interest" in the Hybrids, Electric cars or even greater fuel efficiency in conventional vehicles. It may also boost interest on the alternative fuel and power sources. That alone may be enough.

 

If we can get the majority of pure gas driven cars off the road a little faster because of this, over say a 10 to 15 year span instead of a 15 to 20+ year span at least that will be something. Heavy vehicle wise i.e. Construction, Train, and Ships etc. It's going to be a very, very, very long time before those are replaced with something non fossil fuel powered.

 

So my conclusion is: This disaster will give a decent “push” to speed up the development of alternative fuel power both on the car and power generation fronts.

That's about it…

 

Unless people on a huge scale suddenly experience a major paradigm shift in attitude. (even then it won't be an over night process to get off the Oil due to the tech involved.) Unless that major shift happens we are not going to see more than a slight to medium increase on those alternative fuel/power fronts.

Edited by TinMan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless its 'cheap' and 'now', we won't have any of it. We are all lazy sods. I'm the first one in that lazy line of course. Unless they come up with cold fusion within the decade, I predict within 10 years you may see a slide towards "green"er energy sources as you all have covered above, but it will only be a %, not en masse. We will be in heightened concern about the spill until the relief well gets finished a couple months down the line. Once it's capped, and things start to get cleaned it, within three months we'll be "oil spill what oil spill?". Just like... "Tiger cheated? oh, yeah, I guess I remember that happening. 16 of them? You don't say..."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Unless its 'cheap' and 'now', we won't have any of it. We are all lazy sods. I'm the first one in that lazy line of course. Unless they come up with cold fusion within the decade, I predict within 10 years you may see a slide towards "green"er energy sources as you all have covered above, but it will only be a %, not en masse. We will be in heightened concern about the spill until the relief well gets finished a couple months down the line. Once it's capped, and things start to get cleaned it, within three months we'll be "oil spill what oil spill?". Just like... "Tiger cheated? oh, yeah, I guess I remember that happening. 16 of them? You don't say..."

 

Let's hope the cleaning up goes quickly, if it doesn't and it goes up the east coast we're going to be talking about it for a long while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oil is still too ingrained into the American culture. It's ingrained into a substantial portion of the world's cultures.

 

 

Ever seen a movie called Idaho Transfer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That sounds obscure enough that a link might have been useful.

 

In all seriousness, I just saw this the other day (one of fifty films in the Nightmare Worlds collection -- there's your link), and it's not bad. Directed by Peter Fonda. And it is actually relevant to the topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 1st tropic storm is brewing down there which should make its way into the gulf next week. With the warm waters of the Gulf, who knows, 1st hurricane? I do not think this summer of oil drenched seas and hurricanes smacking into the gulf coast holds well for those living down there. As if they don't have enough problems. I just responded to another thread about the decline of tabletop games, then I stopped to think what might a fisherman who lives on the coast in Pensacola be thinking. I understand everybody has there problems, some worse than others, but I am thankful I can write about a concern I have whether the RPG industry will become popular again rather than how am I going to feed my family tonight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am thankful I can write about a concern I have whether the RPG industry will become popular again rather than how am I going to feed my family tonight.

I know.

Long after this problem with the RPG industry is either resolved or becomes moot because there just isn't an industry anymore, entire livelihoods and family traditions will have been destroyed all up and down the coast -- most of which will happen AFTER the unblinking eye of the media has looked away to the next bit of "ooh, sparkly".

They'll still feel the brunt of BPs callous disregard for safety (as BPs lobbyists lobbied mercilessly to avoid more stringent safety regulations) in the next 20 years while we have moved on towards whatever else catches our eye.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this being a horrific event still dosnt get to me that much, im probably pissed off enough that nothing is done to israel(just in case someone missed it a few ships with food and medicine was sent to gaza, israeli military boarded one of the ships on international waters and shot everyone, the same group later that week shot some fishermen). i mean a few companies always acts badly, but only a few times a whole goverment has gotten behind something as horrendous as piracy(which it becomes sins it was on international waters) and the killing of civilians(even tho they keep telling everyone they were scuba suites and fired automatic weapons towards a boat a few kilometers away, that alone would make any serious gun nut wonder a bit). i cant but value people over animals even tho i value people as animals, and many i value below even a speck of dust.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it amazing how little the civilized countries of the world do against real pirates, while twisting our laws into pretzels and stripping future generations of their cultural heritage over so-called "piracy" of "intellectual property".

 

But that's a rant for another day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't believe they STILL haven't capped the leak...

 

What's the latest estimate on how much is gushing out daily over 60,000.00 barrels a day! Makes you wonder just how much of a fuel shortage there was last year that drove crude prices up so high.

 

Anyone know the figures on barrels per day our entire planet's pop needs daily? I guess I could google it :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it interesting, the fact that the last post left it open and they only recently got it 100% plugged (according to the folks and cameras down there). Now onto other world dilemmas!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...