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I also prefer game systems that provision the ability for a Character to have superpowers or magical abilities that can be used without rationing. Despite my preferences however, Cinematics and the core behind what d6 offered originally with Star Wars (and the idea of spending Character Points for rolling extra dice in "dire" situations) held to a specific ideal to drive the scenes and the action in them with special events.

 

My peception of it at first was very narrow, but eventually I arrived at the conclusion that a Character in these systems was designed to "survive" along through a story. Often, a player gets lucky with dice so there is little or low spending of Character Points to drive a story and more luck driving it (the SW d6 wild die for instance). What I always saw as a detraction from SW d6, was that you didn't have enough Character Points to make using them in game make sense for driving the story. If you want Cinematic or Superheroic action in a game, then the "fuel" for that fulchrum in a gaming system and the core mechanics behind it should also be provided readily. Character Points were few and far between in this regard, and making that "Hero" took a very long time and lots of dedicated playing, or completely ignoring that base of delvering experience.

 

We used that as one of our core principals in creating Cinema6. We designed it to be Mutable and have intergrated that into its core design, so that GMs and Players can agree on a workable system that either includes or discards these certain aspects so that the game play experience feels more fluid to them. Magic is driven at its core through a set of rules revolving around "Special Abilities" which are activated by Cinema Points. The principal behind that being what you described that you strongly dislike. So what sets a Magic user apart from another Character? Their ability to fight and defend themselves easily? We took this into account, and have Mutable rules, that basically allow a Magic User to utilize a "Magic Focus", like a Fighter might use a Sword, except it provides for Ranged attacking, like a Thief or Archer. However the Magic User is as normally ineffective in hand to hand combat as a similar Thief or Archer without dedicating the experience to those Melee/Brawl/Grapple Skills, however nothing prohibits them from doing so in the Cinema6.

 

In c6, we use our Willpower Skill, which allows a Magic User to utilize the basic Magic Focus (ie - an Amulet, a Ring, Staff, or Wand) as the Skill for successfully and accurately firing a bolt of Magical Energy. The "Make and Model" of the Magic Focus (ie - not all Staffs are created equally) varies, so a better Magic Focus may have better Range or better Damage or both, or have some sort of Elemental effects, etc. Like all Ranged Weapons in Cinema6, the damage varies by range, however it is driven by Willpower as well (making Magic Users arguably more powerful since they can pickup a random Magic Focus and it deals damage partially based on their Willpower Skill, like Throwing a Dagger) however weapons like Bows and Guns have static damage, since they truly don't have added benefits from a Skill with Damage, more than they do overall Accuracy.

 

A lot of this isn't immediately evident in our Beta R1 Documentation, but it is very clearly indicated in our Beta R2 release which should be our sometime soon. The same concept of using Willpower, "to exert one's will on the surrounding universe", to utilize specific supernatural abilities is an easy and elegant method for leveraging them when a GM does not want to make players spend lots of experience over usability.

 

- J.

JElliot@wickednorthgames.com

http://www.cinema6games.com

Edited by Whill
This in-depth discussion of The Cinema6 RPG deserves it's own thread.

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Hey, J., just wanted to say I'm looking forward to the 2nd release Beta - you guys are doing some really good stuff with Cinema 6. It's not entirely to my preferences based on the time I've spent with D6, but I can see where based on the experiences with Star Wars D6 you related in the above post that it would be a natural evolution.

 

It's all looking excellent so far, and I wish you and your team success with it!

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My peception of it at first was very narrow, but eventually I arrived at the conclusion that a Character in these systems was designed to "survive" along through a story. Often, a player gets lucky with dice so there is little or low spending of Character Points to drive a story and more luck driving it (the SW d6 wild die for instance). What I always saw as a detraction from SW d6, was that you didn't have enough Character Points to make using them in game make sense for driving the story. If you want Cinematic or Superheroic action in a game, then the "fuel" for that fulchrum in a gaming system and the core mechanics behind it should also be provided readily. Character Points were few and far between in this regard, and making that "Hero" took a very long time and lots of dedicated playing, or completely ignoring that base of delvering experience.

 

We used that as one of our core principals in creating Cinema6.

 

You may want to have a separate pool for points meant to be spent during play vs. advancement points meant to be spent between game sessions.

 

Serenity RPG = Plot Points, Savage Worlds = Bennies, d20 = Action Points, etc. that are meant to do "cool stuff" during play. (Perhaps Cinema Points for Cinema6?)

versus Experience Points, XP, Character Points that are meant to show slow improvement of your character over time.

 

It takes away a bit of simplicity, but it also completely eliminates the issue of stingy GMs and points hoarding players. Most modern game systems seem to be going this route.

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@ReRun941:

We actually dealt with this very early on, actively debating multiple pools of points for seperate activities versus a single consolidating pool of points. With very extensive testing, we learned that the points hoarders quickly experience problems with survival in game. Cinema6 is meant to be a burn-your-points-quickly game. We have had games where little rolling occurs and the players get 5-6 Cinema Points at the end of the session, or games where lots of combat occurs and a player decides to burn through 15-20 Cinema Points in a few combat rounds. Since there's no decisive Cinema Point spending limit, its easy to make Cinema Points go away.

 

Unfortunately, if a large enough gaming group plays, points hoarders will need discriminating GMs with more experience in order to avoid early overpowering, however c6 is meant to only be a Framework, and does not preclude a GM from having seperate pools for this purpose. We look forward to providing a simple foundation where GMs can take their preferences and easily apply them to the Framework. We finally resolved it was easiest for a GM to add on to a simple foundation over a system with lots of points and dice pools versus having more complex rules that cannot be as easily handled or end up as being more time intensive for GMs.

 

We decided upon having a common pool as it causes players to be far more picky about where and when they spend their points. This was definitely a matter of contention for us, and it took a great deal of time and effort to come to these conclusions. The simplification behind having a single pool feels strange at first, but lends well to the idea of Cinema driven action and adventure, and it really jelled well with the games we're working to further develop under specific IPs.

 

Regards,

- J. Elliot

JElliot@WickedNorthGames.com

http://www.cinema6games.com

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It is one of those things that is a hard call. Also with the use of Fate Points it becomes a compound issue. What if the guidelines/uses for those points were redesigned to keep the bridge separate if desired.

 

I do admith though that in my experience the points hoarders may seem to have an advantage in the longterm, but the ones who spends them frequently for great cinematic effect does seem to both hold their own and even really tend to shine in both daring and creativity.

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@Harmyn:

It really was difficult call for us. Ultimately it was just easier to scale "Up" than to go backwards to a single Pool system. Its very easy to have seperate pools as it stands, where a GM designates XP as one pool (used to buy Character Improvements) and Cinema Points to activate Special Abilities or just burn for extra single dice rolls.

 

We felt that the Point Hoarders will end up having a more difficult time in the long run with c6, since a lot of the kick-butt Special Abilities that are expensive are tiered and required increment spending anyway (and cost Cinema Points to activate in game anyway).

 

Regards,

- J. Elliot

JElliot@WickedNorthGames.com

http://www.cinema6games.com

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@Whill:

Thanks for the unique thread! So far as the Cinema6 RPG Framework goes... It is a brutally slow economy, even now as things are picking up. We see that the success of any role playing game depends on a solid sales base that revolves around not only a great game system, but the ability of product to move based on an IP.

 

For Example, WEG's Star Wars d6 Revised and Expanded sold 500,000+ copies. Not because it was d6. It was because it was well written, and demonstrated the passion so many fans had for Star Wars. That and it had "Star Wars" on it.

 

So, for this reason, we are trying to get entertainment IPs. I cannot reveal which we are chasing or what the rhyme or reason is behind what we are trying to acquire, as a lot of the work we have done may never see fruition if we can not acquire the licenses to these IPs.

 

The biggest part of us getting the IPs: Having an audience willing to buy our products. There will be fans of the IPs, of course, but we also want new table top gamers and we want veteran table top gamers. For those reasons, we are trying hard to attract anyone to sign on to our forums, and give us localized feedback.

 

That way we can point to our site when we approach the owners of the IPs, and say "Look. We have an audience. We have fans. You have fans, too. Let's combine them and make them all fans of our combined efforts."

 

One thing I know, is that if we can get the licensing for some of the IPs we have worked towards, you should be excited, because I know I am.

 

Having an established user base really does help when it comes to these things, though we are pursuing one of these IPs now since the timeline to get in there and be successful with it is shorter preferred. We are in a crunch to draw attention to ourselves, to pull in not only the gaming community already established, but new gamers. We are working towards these goals every day, and are very interested in the established community working with us.

 

Regards,

- J. Elliot

JElliot@wickednorthgames.com

http://www.cinema6games.com

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A preview of the Cinema6 Magic Focus Weapons and how they will be laid out in the c6 Beta R2:

(Keep in mind these weapons are meant to be used with the Willpower Skill by a Magic User the same way a Warrior uses Melee Skill with a Sword or Archery Skill with a Bow. [At least one (1) "Magic Effect" Special Ability must be owned right now prior to their use. This will likely be modified by document release.] )

 

Magic Focus Weapons, categorized by the type and the quality of their make:

Amulet, Standard, Range(S/M/L): 5/10/20, Damage(S/M/L): Willpower+2d/1d/base, Fire Control(S/M/L): 0/0/0, Cost: 50

Amulet, Superior, Range(S/M/L): 10/20/40, Damage(S/M/L): Willpower+3d/2d/1d, Fire Control(S/M/L): 0/0/0, Cost: 150

Amulet, Paradigm, Range(S/M/L): 40/100/200, Damage(S/M/L): Willpower+4d/3d/2d, Fire Control(S/M/L): 1d/0/0, Cost: 450

 

Ring, Standard, Range(S/M/L): 10/20/30, Damage(S/M/L): Willpower+3d/2d/1d, Fire Control(S/M/L): 0/0/0, Cost: 100

Ring, Superior, Range(S/M/L): 20/30/50, Damage(S/M/L): Willpower+4d/3d/2d, Fire Control(S/M/L): 0/0/0, Cost: 300

Ring, Paradigm, Range(S/M/L): 50/150/300, Damage(S/M/L): Willpower+5d/4d/3d, Fire Control(S/M/L): 1d/0/0, Cost: 900

 

Wand, Standard, Range(S/M/L): 30/60/100, Damage(S/M/L): Willpower+4d/3d/2d, Fire Control(S/M/L): 0/0/0, Cost: 250

Wand, Superior, Range(S/M/L): 40/80/120, Damage(S/M/L): Willpower+5d/4d/3d, Fire Control(S/M/L): 0/0/0, Cost: 750

Wand, Paradigm, Range(S/M/L): 100/250/500, Damage(S/M/L): Willpower+6d/5d/4d, Fire Control(S/M/L): 1d/1d/0, Cost: 2,250

 

Staff, Standard, Range(S/M/L): 100/200/300, Damage(S/M/L): Willpower+5d/4d/3d, Fire Control(S/M/L): 0/0/0, Cost: 500

Staff, Superior, Range(S/M/L): 200/300/500, Damage(S/M/L): Willpower+6d/5d/4d, Fire Control(S/M/L): 0/0/0, Cost: 1,500

Staff, Paradigm, Range(S/M/L): 400/800/1,250, Damage(S/M/L): Willpower+7d/6d/5d, Fire Control(S/M/L): 2d/1d/0, Cost: 4,500

 

Materials and Modifiers

Ash, Range x1, Damage +1d, Fire Control(S/M/L): 0/0/0, Cost: x1.5

Iron, Range x1.5, Damage +1d, Fire Control(S/M/L): 0/0/0, Cost: x1.5

Oak, Range x1.5, Damage +2d, Fire Control(S/M/L): +1d/0/0, Cost: x2

Steel, Range x2, Damage +1d, Fire Control(S/M/L): +1d/0/0, Cost: x2

Crystalline, Range x3, Damage +2d, Fire Control(S/M/L): +1d/0/0, Cost: x3

Dragonbone, Range x3, Damage +3d, Fire Control(S/M/L): +1d/+1d/+1d, Cost: x4

Edited by arcgaden

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We're wrapping up the last tidbits of the c6 Beta R2 document right now (its under review right now) and all the major changes are in. We are tracking to release no later than this Friday. This will be the first full iteration available in pdf, docx, rtf, and txt. We are doing our best to have as much of the work here done as possible.

The RC (Release Candidate) document will not come until June-July, which will be the last one before we go to add art and be ready to head to press (on demand only, we will not be publishing to sell the core document in stores, that way people only pay when they want it printed. We will make nominal profits on the printed ).

Azamar is tracking as expected. New material is coming soon to provide more insight into the entire world of Azamar. More maps and locations, etc.

Descension (A Post-Apocalyptic Earth) will have its first source material out soon as well.

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Update on upcoming changes tomorrow:

 

It looks like the roll out is on schedule for tomorrow. A lot of major and minor editing occurred in the document. Due to the layout concerns on the docx vs. rtf vs. txt, a lot of scaling back will occur in the less formatted documentation. Tables will out put as lists that end up being pretty messy and this will be worked on in the coming week after release, but we will be releasing the rtf and txt version despite this issue. The PDF document is the best way to look at the doc right now if you're simply reading through and getting familiar with the rules. It provides the fastest and easiest browsing, with the hyperlinks integrated with the PDF standard.

 

Changes:

- New terms added into Terminology, minor editing

- Introduction heavily edited, added terms and flow chart for framework structuring, greater clarification added

- Font: We adjusted to a 12pt standard font, using 10pt in the tables. This forced a lot of column removal on the tables and we will be attempting to handle this in the next week or so with a seperate Table Only document that lays things out in Panoramic positioning.

- Character Development, Improvement Table adjusted for clarification on Learning New Skills and Acquiring Skill Specialization Costs

- Skills Speciailization and Blending (Optional) Rule detailed out

- Special Abilities clarified, added

- Magic Focus Weapons, clarification and some rules handling, See Weapons section and Combat section

- All bottom tables adjusted to reflect tables throughout documentation

- Added Minor Changes throughout the documentation

- Headings added for easier browsing

- All handled text (non-stat) adjusted to Justified Text Formatting for user optimization

- Pre-publish layout and handling established (we're prepping to publish after the RC over the summer)

 

Regards,

J.

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Sorry about the ball being dropped in the Extra Section fo Beta R2, for those who noticed the differential between the Beta R2 and Beta R1, the Extras section got reformatted and lost some information in the process. this is in the process of revoery and will be re-released with the complete info sometime next weekend.

 

Many changes will occur in the RC in the early summer.

 

We are currently working on improving the Scaling rules. This has been only mildly tested at this point, and we are still in the infancy of getting these changes worked in. Getting Scaling right is a very difficult endeavor, as it ultimately is designed around a concept of creating something both generic and applicable for multiple genres in our cases. It ends up being pretty silly to have a Character Scale with Starship as the name of a measurement level of the Scale when dealing with a Fantasy game. Currently we're working to both resolve and better identify a more generic way to both handle and simplify the current system. The basics of what we're doing is creating a Scale that uses Characters as the Base for the Scale. Above Base, we have Step 2, Step 3, Step 4, and so on. Each representative of a multiplier (x2, x3, x4).

 

An example: The multiplier to strike a Dragon which is in Scale Step 4, ( s4), a Character rolls to attack: Melee Skill (3d Dex + 3d Melee = 6d), gets a 20 to hit, this is now multiplied by four (x4) due to the Scale, so its an 80 to hit. The Dragon has a Dodge of 5d, rolling a 13 to Dodge. It is Struck and must soak Damage. The Dragon receives x4 to soak (Strength + Armor) x4, rolling 5d+3d = 8d, getting 17, multiplying it by four (x4) = 68. the Character must now roll Damage, but receives no Scale multiplier, and has a spear or lance. Str (3d) + 7d for Damage, the Player rolls 10d. This results in a 51. No Damage occurs, and so on. The trick here of course is identifying a good way to Scale creatures and characters with one another, and a good GM probably wouldn't throw novice Character against a Scale Step 4 creature due to the extreme multiplier. If somehow the Characters defeat the Dragon, the Scale also applies to the Cinema Point Value: (CPV). So the Dragon is a 5 Cinema Point enemy at Scale Step 4, the Character get 20 Cinema Points each for that defeat.

 

As demonstrated, we are still working on keeping it balanced on all ends. This is an extreme example, but gives the basics. The multipliers work well, but it is easy to get out of hand, and we will be game testing this a great deal.

 

Clarification of earning Cinema Points needs to occur.

 

Other topics will be discussed further in the coming weeks and months.

 

- J. Elliot

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Hmm, I am no lawyer but if Cinema6 is based on OpenD6 shouldn't it contain a copy of the OGL? I just had a look at the c6Beta and didn't find any mention of it.

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@Stargazer:

 

Only if we brand ourselves as a d6 System. While we use some large elements of the d6 System, we are our own branding. The same works for the d20 System. If you want to associate yourself with the d20 System by using their logo, you must ensure it falls in line with the OGL or provides open access to it. By your statement, any d6-like game or game using exclusively six-sided dice should utilize the OGL from WEG.

 

Regards,

J. Elliot

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@Stargazer:

You are correct, I did confuse those two. Thank you.

 

Ultimately, Cinema6 is an independent system. It plays differently than any previously created d6 system reliant iteration. It utilizes some similarities, but due to many differences, copyright law is specific in that there is no precedent for litigation when some pieces of something are borrowed from another.

 

To establish a foundation for litigation the holder must demonstrate the following about a published work:

"It embodies a substantial amount of protected expression taken from the earlier, underlying work."

 

Cinema6 clearly does not embody a substantial amount of the protected expression from the d6 System. We invite you to read through and take a look! We would love more opinions on our work and look forward to more RPG community feedback!

 

Please see this link for more information on Derivative work and where Copyright law applies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work

 

Regards,

J. Elliot

Edited by arcgaden

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Oy... arcgaden, please use something other than the wikipedia for your own information on derivative works and copyright law. Wikipedia can be used for quick reference, but don't rely on it when you're getting into the realm of law. Verify ALL information with at least two other sources not related or linked from the wikipedia page. That way you can be certain what is factual and what is someone thinking they know what they're talking about. I've seen way more inaccuracies with wikipedia than I have accuracy.

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@Grimace:

I used to actuaklly do Copyright processing back in college and have a strong understanding. You are correct and there are inconsistencies in Wiki, definitely. However the specific laws governing Derivative works are clear.

Maybe this link provides greater clarity:

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf

 

Regards,

J. Elliot

Edited by arcgaden

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Cinema6 clearly does not embody a substantial amount of the protected expression from the d6 System. We invite you to read through and take a look! We would love more opinions on our work and look forward to more RPG community feedback!

 

While I like what I've read about c6, I have to disagree with this statement. I think c6 does, infact, use a great deal of previous D6 work, and would be considered derivative. Granted, none of this matters unless Erick takes you to court over it for an actual ruling, but I'd say the c6 system is is obviously a new version of D6.

 

My main question, at this point, is why not just include the OGL and be done with it?

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Small point: I don't have any opinion on Cinema6's need for an OGL, but Eric's desire (or not) for legal action isn't the only concern I would have, but also that of any future owner of WEG / D6 system.

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@asmkm22: While c6 does use some elements of related d6 material, it also uses related d20 (WotC) and d10 (WW) material. With this conflict, we discussed this early on and made the decision to stay independent as a game system due to the unique gameplay that comes out when playing c6. It may feel to traditional d6 players similar to the WEG d6 system, but once immersed in the framework mechanics, a player soon realizes the differences are staggering. The way c6 plays is markedly different, in terms of both Character mechanics, to overall playability. Including the OGL defies the very idea that we created a new dice system that utilizes many aspects of multiple dice systems, making it both unique and completely independent. We actually debated about using eight-sided dice (d8) as the primary base die for this system when we created it, to completely differentiate the base die. However, since d6 dice are standard with most board games, it made more sense for us to continue to work with six-sided dice. This is certainly a difficult decision, given that the d6 System is so very different from c6 and the how the core of the Framework operates.

 

@Rosencrantz: This was indeed a concern of ours. We are trying to discuss purchasing WEG from Eric, currently. We have requested a Due Diligence package from him, and done our homework on WEG / Purgatory Publishing through Dun and Bradstreet. We are extremely interested in owning both the name sake of WEG and helping to move the d6 community forward. We are eager to attract new role players and keep veteran gamers. We also want to immerse the community in our development process, so the final products end up incorporating a better sense of gameplay and smoother ways of incorporating new ideas and rules. When developing any solution to a problem, unfortunately, no one can get everything right. The more feedback we get, the more we'll get right.

 

I'm sure a lot of you are skeptical of the performance and playability of how c6 is different, because its very easy to focus on how it is the same as the d6 system WEG created so long ago. c6 is a system which is portable, and not dependent on a type of die. The system runs on Cinema Points. It is difficult to emphasize how core they are to Character Development and in-game play time, and how they can be used for extensability of the c6 core Framework mechanics. We really do hope that each of you takes time to do more than skim Cinema6.

 

Regards,

J. Elliot

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Okay, I'm confused.... if this isn't a D6 game based on the D6 system released through the OGL, then why are you: 1. advertising it on the West End Games fan site? 2. taking part in D6 Resurrection? 3. having the phrase "D6 Unleashed" in your product? 4. utilizing so many core aspects of the D6 system?

 

Do you have an aversion to releasing any of this on the D6 OGL, is that why you're not putting it on your product? Do you expect anyone else to build off your product or are you expecting to be the only publisher of anything Cinema 6? Realize that if you do want others to publish material using the Cinema 6 ideas, they will not be able to legally do so unless they get a license to do so from you since you're not releasing any of this to the OGL.

 

I'm just trying to figure out the full reasoning behind the lack of the D6 OGL and your apparent desire to not put any of this out for other people to publish from (even though some aspects of your product seem to demonstrate that you intend for others to make stuff based on Cinema 6). Your answers on this thread have certainly brought more questions to the table than they have provided answers as to your aspirations. Hopefully you can answer these questions to help clear up any confusion.

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@Grimace:

 

1. Obviously it is a game using six sided dice. West End Games fans primarily play d6-based games. Variations on those rules tend to not stray a great deal from the d6 System documentation. We determined that Cinema6 casts the most appeal to d6 players in general, and that d6 players will have more insight into the benefits and detractions of the d6 mechanics. We are not exclusively advertising on the West Eng Games fansite, however we have garnered more attention here than other locations in some cases due to the aforementioned point of d6 players heavily utilizing the WEGFanSite.

 

2. The d6 Resurrection: We are working with the D6 Resurrection group as a cooperative move with @Wraith, due to him showing significant interest in our products. If you are curious about his experiences with Cinema6, you should ask him.

 

3. D6 Unleashed is a cooperative term we and the D6 Resurrection group have developed in coalition. The use of "D6" to describe or refer to Six-Sided Dice is not copyright protected since it is a common term within role-playing games as a whole to refer to dice in this method: d4, d6, d8, etc. Our intent with d6 Unleashed will be made more clear in time, but for now you should understand that we intend to utilize d6 Unleashed for some very exciting things that we cannot currently discuss.

 

4. Utilizing so many core aspects of the d6 System: This is a matter of subjective analysis.

 

Cinema6 exclusively uses six-sided dice, like the d6 system. We roll many of them to demonstrate varying levels of aptitude in skills, like multiple dice systems. We add them together, like the d6 System, to acquire a sum to reach knowledge of success or failure; which is also done, (with fewer dice and static scores), in the d20 system (you roll the d20, to hit a specific DR, which changes based on situational variables). We intentionally structured our Character Sheets to appeal to d6 System players and make it easily digestable.

 

Things generic to most systems: In Combat: Players roll initiative, they take turns, they take actions, they wrap up the round. Weapons in multiple systems use Short, Medium, and Long ranges. Terminology such as "Fire Control" is a generic term, also used by the US Military. Much RPG terminology is difficult to encapsulate under the confines of a single comprehensive license, such as "Difficulty Rating", something we most identify with D&D 3.0 and later as it became very prevalent there.

 

-We do not use Advantages and Disadvantages, at all. We use Special Abilities, which we view as the integral component in developing and customizing Cinema6 Characters. Special Abilities drive the need for a GM to constantly provide value and reward for player accomplishments, such as outwitting an opponent, discyphering an unknown language, figuring out a complex puzzle, all of these should provide Cinema Points to players during a game, and all of them should assist a player's character in leveraging Special Abilities to make them really worthwhile.

-We do not have multiple dice pools, we have a single dice pool.

-We use the traditional Hit Points, and derive them uniquely, as well as an independent Initiative and Move, also derived uniquely.

-We use 5 Attributes, including 3 Attributes uniquely scaled and designed specifically for Cinema6.

-We developed a series of specific Execution dice mechanics, which eliminates excess rolling.

-We are still working towards simpification and organization of the dice mechanics with c6.

 

- Our product is also incomplete. We are still working on it, and currently in the development phase. The Cinema6 RPG Framework is not released yet. What you see is incomplete. The rules are not fleshed out entirely, and we are still working with some partners to establish certain baselines around the rules sets we are uniquely developing to implement with Cinema6. If you attempt to apply d6 System rules to Cinema6 at its foundation, it just doesn't work.

 

We feel that the D6 OGL is too restrictive. We have already discussed establishing an open source initiative with the Cinema6 RPG Framework, and will likely publish it under less stringent guidelines. We will likely adopt the Open Publication License under the Open Content movement.

 

It can be found here: http://opencontent.org/openpub/

 

With a much less strict publishing and derivative guideline. We want others to publish content based on ours to be wholly owned by those developing it, royalty free. While the BetaR2 does not currently contain a "license" per se, it does provide out right permission beneath the Credits:

 

"Permission is given to reproduce for personal use and use this document as a System Resource Document, (SRD), in development of role-playing games using c6, the Cinema6 Role Playing Game Framework, royalty free. Any individual, partnership, organization or company using c6 in a publication must cite Wicked North Games, L.L.C. by displaying our official Cinema6 Role Playing Game Framework logo as can be acquired on the Cinem6Games website found at: http://www.cinema6games.com, Products Tab."

 

Until such time as our adoption of the Open Publication License is finalized, this permission should serve anyone wishing to extend or expand upon the Framework, and afford them the legal protection they may desire. I really hope I have provided the answers to your questions here, but am happy to answer any more you may have.

 

Regards,

J. Elliot

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We have requested a Due Diligence package from him, and done our homework on WEG / Purgatory Publishing through Dun and Bradstreet. We are extremely interested in owning both the name sake of WEG and helping to move the d6 community forward. We are eager to attract new role players and keep veteran gamers. We also want to immerse the community in our development process, so the final products end up incorporating a better sense of gameplay and smoother ways of incorporating new ideas and rules. When developing any solution to a problem, unfortunately, no one can get everything right. The more feedback we get, the more we'll get right.

 

In light of that, I find this perplexing - if TORG has been sold, and D6 is Open, including the Product Identity of the D6 name, what value would owning West End Games hold for you, since Cinema 6 is only marginally derived from the D6 System? Keeping the name alive? Would you be publishing Cinema 6 products with D6 conversions included? Based on the history of Masterbook, that might not work out so well, whatever the similarities or dissimilarities might be. I've got to admit, I share Grimace's confusion here. When you first started detailing Cinema 6 I thought it sounded great, but it's the bigger picture, such as your intent to buy what remains of West End Games, that has me puzzled.

 

From this thread:

 

 

J. Elliot =====

 

I just wanted to touch base again. Wicked North Games is still

interested in acquiring WEG. Our plan is to continue the d6 legacy.

We are currently working with Travis Wooten on ways to expand the d6

fan base overall. While we have no plans to expand the older WEG d6

IPs, we want to see about moving forward with this.

 

 

Given your statement that other than the dice used there is little commonality between C6 and D6, how would WNG purchasing WEG provide any benefit to the D6 community?

Edited by Lee Torres

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@Lee Torres:

Us purchasing WEG: A big part of that for us is to open d6 completely and entirely. I know that a lot of the d6 Community feels like it is completely Open now with the OGL the way it is, but we seek to catalyze it further and provide a greater, more cooperative game development process for any future Wicked North Games development. As well, WEG still retains d6 Star Wars rights (in terms of suing someone if they try to redistribute or publish star wars d6 books again). We don't have a desire to sue anyone, but IF WNG could acquire the Star Wars RPG license, we could also attempt to gain rights and access to republish the original works or form a more open d6 base for them, so they could be more freely distributed and accessed. Right now, sites like the Holocron, work under a constant threat of violating some copyright somewhere.

 

Theoretically: If we could access the older retained WEG publishing rights, get the SW License anew. We could afford and extend sites like Holocron some legal protection if ever the license falls from the hands of the d6 community again. These are all speculative ambitions, but certainly not entirely unrealistic or out of the realms of possibilities. Owning WEG also provides WNG the protection we need from violating any copyrights they retained over star wars d6 material, let alone other licenses the touched.

 

In theory, anyone in the gaming community could do this. I believe WNG is in the position to do it, and has the structure, talent, and passion needed to catalyze these elements to make a lot of this theorization possible. WNG has many Star Wars fans, and we would love to get the license to publish it. Its not only a lucrative endeavor for us, but also one of passion. It would be absolutely amazing to establish a precedent in the gaming community where Star Wars returns to d6 gaming, and where we can relinquish a great deal of the rights to using it to extend and expand to derivative works that simply assume the same protections as the whole.

 

If you need more clarification, Lee, please let me know.

 

Regards,

J. Elliot

Edited by arcgaden

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No - you covered it - I was conflating Cinema 6 expansion with the other goal, apparently incorrectly. Thanks for the clarification, and good luck with your efforts!

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