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Tysonium

TORG, system-to-system

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I'm going to have several months of downtime coming up, and am considering taking the time to prep a new TORG campaign. Unfortunately, I know my players well enough to know that they will not embrace the system, but I've always felt the background and setting to be robust enough to do with any system.

 

I'm considering running TORG using either the Savage Worlds or d6 systems. My question is to those familiar with both: which one do you think would best emulate the cinematic tone of the setting, and what major tweaks do you think are needed to make it workable? My biggest concern is how to handle disconnections/reconnections, as the rest can probably be emulated with their respective special effects mechanics.

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I would think that it would be as simple as having a "connected/disconnected" state for each character and assessing a penalty. For Savage worlds, perhaps a -2 to all rolls. For D6, you could either raise all difficulties by one level or assess a -1D penalty on all die rolls.

 

If you really want to get fancy, you could have a "minor disconnect" and a "major disconnect" where the Savage Worlds penalties are -2/-4 and the D6 penalties are -1D/-2D for minor/major disconnects. (or raise difficulites by 1/2 levels.)

 

When thinking about it for D6, I'd probably go the "raise the difficulty" route, since being wounded already penalizes the PCs with negative die modifiers.

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I'm not quite as concerned with the effects of disconnection -- being forced to operate by the rules of the reality you're in without being able to make contradictions is more effective than any penalties would be. My question was more of how to handle the mechanics of disconnection itself.

 

I guess for either system a critical failure using an unsupported tool could be considered to cause a disconnection. My worry is that it would happen too often... but I'm not sure if that's a bad thing or not. One of the complaints that I've had in games I've run before was on the difficulty (or lack thereof) of reconnection, making a disconnect more a "lose a turn" mechanic than a roleplaying challenge (granted, a fault with the players, but one that tended to be supported by the mechanics). Perhaps an increase in frequency, combined with a more lengthy reconnect time (say, not until the end of the scene) would work.

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Heh. I've been thinking of starting a d6 Torg thread for some time ;)

 

Although I don't like the Wild Die, I has uses for Torg.

 

A roll of '1' on the Wild Die might mean a disconnection if a contradiction exists. For a 4-case contradiction, a '1' is enough If it's a 1-case contradiction, roll another die; on a '1-2' there's a disconnection.

 

A '6' is a reroll unless the character is being treated as unskilled; then it takes a second roll of '1-2' to get the extra roll.

 

I don't actually like having to roll the additional die, though. Maybe if the initial total is odd and the Wild Die' is a '1', you disconnect on a 1-case, otherwise you only disconnect on a 4-case. If the total is even, on a WD of '6' unless you have lost any rerolls. if the total is odd, you get a reroll only if you are skilled.

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I would take the D6 system. Torg has in fact been developed from the D6 system and many rules mechanics are still the same. In addition D6 uses the Torg value chart for magic (D6 fantasy p.87) and this chart is at the heart of the Torg system. You can easily use the value chart to make the calculations from Torg value to D6 dice. As far as I know there is no conversion table from Torg to D6 but there is one from Torg to Masterbook (War's End p. 119) and another one from Masterbook to D6 (world of Aden Appendix). But I think converting from A to B to C could become very unreliable. I would rather do the math using the value chart.

Edited by Stormchild

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1s on the Wild Die would seem to work pretty well for this.

 

As another option, how about using the axioms as difficulty numbers somehow? Like, in low Tech Axioms, you have to roll above a certain minimum target number to use high tech devices or you get a disconnect; roll even lower and you get a contradiction.

 

Where you take the character's home axioms and their current reality's axioms and compare them. Maybe add the difference to all skill checks? Missed rolls = disconnects, 1s on the Wild Die = Contradiction.

 

So to take a High Tech weapon like a blaster from Nippon Tech (Tech 24) to Living Lands (Tech 3) (I don't know what the real axiom level are, please don't flame me). Requires the PC to roll above the target's dodge or the range difficulty +21!

 

Just brainstormin' here.

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I am leaning toward D6 for this one - although I love Savage Worlds, I do agree D6 will suit my purposes better. I am planning on making a couple of tweaks, though.

 

I don't really want to handle contradictions in the form of modified difficulties, as disconnection always seemed fairly binary to me. It never seemed a matter of skill or luck as much as reality suddenly noticing and saying "cut it out". I also don't particularly like adding additional die rolls to the mix, which is why I've been pondering the following:

 

Since I'm definitely using the TORG drama deck (actually a modified version based on the Shatterzone D6 deck). I was thinking of adding a "Reality Check" line to each card, to use in conjunction with the Wild Die. If a "1" comes up on the Wild Die and the Storm Knight is currently creating a contradiction, the Reality Check would determine if he disconnects. If the check is being made out of rounds, I could just flip the next card on the deck to determine if the character disconnects or not.

 

I'm strongly considering not bothering with distinguishing between 1- and 4- case contradictions and just checking for whether or not the character is creating any sort of contradiction, just to keep things simple. Any thoughts on the matter?

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I would take the D6 system. Torg has in fact been developed from the D6 system and many rules mechanics are still the same. In addition D6 uses the Torg value chart for magic (D6 fantasy p.87) and this chart is at the heart of the Torg system. You can easily use the value chart to make the calculations from Torg value to D6 dice. As far as I know there is no conversion table from Torg to D6 but there is one from Torg to Masterbook (War's End p. 119) and another one from Masterbook to D6 (world of Aden Appendix). But I think converting from A to B to C could become very unreliable. I would rather do the math using the value chart.

I only have a little experience with playing TORG, but I agree that D6 is the way to go. The TORG system was based on D6, so conversion shouldn't be that hard. Also, Shatterzone is based on TORG, and there is a Shatterzone-to-D6 conversion available.

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Shatterzone is practically the same as Masterbook (the DNs are shifted a bit). The biggest differences between Shatterzone/Masterbook and Torg are the use of 2D10 instead of 1D20 and 8 attributes instead of 7. I would go with using the value chart for conversation instead of converting from Torg to Shatterzone or Masterbook and from there to D6.

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Shatterzone is practically the same as Masterbook (the DNs are shifted a bit). The biggest differences between Shatterzone/Masterbook and Torg are the use of 2D10 instead of 1D20 and 8 attributes instead of 7. I would go with using the value chart for conversation instead of converting from Torg to Shatterzone or Masterbook and from there to D6.

 

Torg is slightly off from Masterbook in weapon damage, as well.

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The biggest thing I've learned in a couple of decades of gaming is not to get caught up in trying to do down-to-the-last-decimal conversions of anything. I fully expect to have to do things like spells and equipment from the ground up when it's important, and to use "close enough" numbers otherwise. The value charts will prove invaluable for this.

 

The things I wrestle with are the basics like body points vs. wounds (I may use an amalgam of both), and the TORGocentric things like reality mechanics that have no immediate D6 counterparts.

 

(Since I've come to the conclusion that I'm using D6, should I move further musings to a thread in the D6 forums, or continue discussion here?)

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The biggest thing I've learned in a couple of decades of gaming is not to get caught up in trying to do down-to-the-last-decimal conversions of anything. I fully expect to have to do things like spells and equipment from the ground up when it's important, and to use "close enough" numbers otherwise.

 

Thats my general philosohy for "converting" from d20 to D6. It's more "re-intepreting" (from the ground up) then conversion.

 

Since I've come to the conclusion that I'm using D6, should I move further musings to a thread in the D6 forums, or continue discussion here?

 

True, this thread was about you asking for imput about which system to use, so you could create a new thread about "TORG D6" in the D6 forum now that you've made that decision. After you create that thread, you cou.l,d even come back here and post the link to that thread for reference here in the TORG forum.

 

The other advantage of using D6 is that is another WEG system, so you'll likely get more imput from others here (WEG-system-to-WEG-system). :cool:

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The biggest thing I've learned in a couple of decades of gaming is not to get caught up in trying to do down-to-the-last-decimal conversions of anything. I fully expect to have to do things like spells and equipment from the ground up when it's important, and to use "close enough" numbers otherwise. The value charts will prove invaluable for this.

 

The Masterbook to d6 conversion is fairly simple -- divide by three, treat the remainder as pips. So, 8 becomes 2D+2, 12 becomes 4D, etc. Weapon damage was a little different,requireing you subtract 5 from the damage value before division. Since damage from Torg and Masterbook don't quite line up, you will have to subtract something other than five.

 

EDIT: Eh, probably best to just use weapon stats from d6 Fantasy, Adventure or Space as appropriate, comparing unique Torg weapons to ones that exist in both systems to get damage.

Edited by copeab

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Apparently someone has already done a Savage Worlds conversion, so all the more reason to work with D6.

 

http://www.savageheroes.com/conversions/Savage Torg.pdf

 

I'm familiar with the SW conversion, and I've been pretty impressed by it. I didn't agree with some of his realm changes, but then, that's what the multiverse is for. While I do plan on making some minor changes to the invading cosms, I'm keeping them mainly as written. Most of my changes are cosmetic updates to reflect changes in the world over the intervening years, especially in the area of technology (who knew my XBox would be more powerful than most of the top-of-the-line Marketplace models?).

 

Once I get my thoughts in order, I'll start up my TORG D6 thread and post the link.

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