Jump to content
D6 Online 3.0
fjw70

d6 SW <> d6 Space?

Recommended Posts

I know d6 Space isn't exactly like d6 Star Wars, but I have a particular question about the difference.

 

I never played the old WEG SW RPG, but I did have a copy of the rules and I read them about 18-20 years ago. I seem to remember the way actions worked was that the first action in a round was at full dice, the second actions was at -1d6, the third action was at -2d6, etc. This is a little different then how d6 Space works (i.e. all actions in a particular round are reduced the same).

 

Am I remembering the old SW rules correctly? If so, was this change made in the 2nd SW rules or not until d6 Space came out?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They aren't actually different. This is one of my least favorite parts of the D6 system, ever since SW.

 

See, the way it's supposed to work is the way you describe in D6 Space. But there are reactive actions you can take during a round (dodge, parry, etc), that still count as an additional action, and thus also increase the penalty, but meaning that it can work out that the multiple actions don't neatly follow a flat reduction for the round.

 

It's convoluted and annoying, and to my mind very against the otherwise smooth nature of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They aren't actually different. This is one of my least favorite parts of the D6 system, ever since SW.

 

See, the way it's supposed to work is the way you describe in D6 Space. But there are reactive actions you can take during a round (dodge, parry, etc), that still count as an additional action, and thus also increase the penalty, but meaning that it can work out that the multiple actions don't neatly follow a flat reduction for the round.

 

It's convoluted and annoying, and to my mind very against the otherwise smooth nature of the game.

 

I thought that you had to declare all the actions you were going to take until your next turn and if you didn't leave any actions to dodge or parry then you were just out of luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could still do a reactive dodge/parry, but the cost was that you reduced all further dice pools by 1D until the end of your next turn. So it had a rollover effect from one turn to the next if you did it after you had done other actions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an FYI, in first edition Star Wars, it worked just as he described. If you had a Blaster Skill of 6D, your 1st shot was at 6D, 2nd was at 5D, 3rd at 4D, 4th at 3D, and so on. Each action you took after the first did that reduction, so if you shot three times and then needed to dodge, your dodge was at -3D since it was your fourth action. This rule was changed in 2nd edition Star Wars to a blanket penalty to all actions in the round with the same penalty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As an FYI, in first edition Star Wars, it worked just as he described. If you had a Blaster Skill of 6D, your 1st shot was at 6D, 2nd was at 5D, 3rd at 4D, 4th at 3D, and so on. Each action you took after the first did that reduction, so if you shot three times and then needed to dodge, your dodge was at -3D since it was your fourth action. This rule was changed in 2nd edition Star Wars to a blanket penalty to all actions in the round with the same penalty.

 

That is the way I remember it. For those that played the 1st edition were there problems with the iterative approach?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That is the way I remember it. For those that played the 1st edition were there problems with the iterative approach?

Problem with that approach is it means you can just keep doing stuff until you get low enough dice that you can't succeed anymore. Someone with 13D can just keep shooting again and again with each shot being only slightly less likely than the last, until they don't have any dice anymore. Drags things out a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While the reactive rule is inelegant, you otherwise have the problem of people having to perpetually save an action for dodging whether they need to or not because they don't know what's going to happen, and that probably annoys just as many people as the current rule does, so...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I like a harsher multi-action penalty (progressive like old 1e, but with a much higher die penalty for additional actions, like at least -3D), combined with seperating out reactive defenses, either limiting them to one of each per round, or just always allowing them, depending on how hard or easy to survive you want combat to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If that is how it was in 1e, then the nice thing about the non-progressive system is that it avoids the problem of a player doing tons of things in just a few seconds starting with his worst skill (and no penalty) to his best skill and the worst penalty. As for players holding back an action to avoid the reactive penalty, well, players in the games I've been in rarely bothered to hold back an action. Once you get above a certain number of dice it isn't that necessary if you take the time to make you harder to be shot at. Allows the player to have that round to recover from the stacked penalty, or, if that isn't possible, they just get used to the penalty being present in their rolls after the first turn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my game (which was mostly played with 2nd Ed Star Wars rules) I very quickly realized a problem with multiple actions. It came to a head when two gunmen in my party went head to head with a squad of ten stormtroopers and fired more shots at them than the stormtroopers could return. It was shortly thereafter that I began implementing rules on how many actions you can take in a combat round.

 

It eventually evolved into my current house rule:

 

The number of actions you can take in a round is determined by your Dexterity (or in the case of my peculiar rules—Agility). A character can take 1 action per round plus 1 action per full D of Dexterity. Thus, a person with a 2D Dex could take 3 actions in a round total. A person with a 4D Dex could take 5 (and this includes defensive reactions like dodge). For ship or vehicle combat, the number of actions depends upon the Mechanical attribute (if you still use that in your system).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, I've got to pipe up because I've seen so many mistakes on this multiple action thing.

 

To my knowledge it has NEVER been a progressive reduction based on the number of actions. There wasn't a 6D roll, 5D roll, 4D roll, 3D roll for four shots fired.

 

I will quote from 1st edition Star Wars rulebook, Page 12 under "Using More than One Skill:

His player decided to fire three times in a single combat round. That's a total of two extra skill uses, so he subtracts 2D from the skill code. In addition, he's running (since he leapt through the door), so skill codes are reduced by another 1D. The first time he fires, he rolls 2D+1 (that's 5D+1 minus 3D); the second time he rolls 2D+1 again; and the third time he rolls the same thing.

 

Now I'll quote from Star Wars 2nd Edition R&E, page 78 under Roll Actions - Multiple Actions:

If a character is only making one action, roll the skill's full code. If a character is doing two actions in a round, he loses -1D to all rolls that round. If a character is doing three actions, he loses -2D to all rolls. If a character is doing four actions, he loses -3D to all rolls...and so forth

 

Finally, from D6 Space, page 58 under Multiple Actions:

Thus, for most characters, for each action taken beyond the first the player must subtract 1D from all skill or attribute rolls (but not damage resistance or initiative rolls). Thus trying to do four actions in one round gives the character a -3D modifier to each roll.

 

So no matter which version you're going by, it's always been the same. If you take two actions, you minus 1D from BOTH rolls. And so on. It's a common misconception (one I even made when I first started GMing Star Wars way back when) to do the "full dice, -1D, -2D and so on depending on how many actions were taken. It made characters extremely powerful.

 

But the whole thing is, it's wrong. It's not that way in the rules, and to my knowledge, never has been. I've just seen so many people, even here, that say that it was the incorrect way.

 

Additionally, there was never a case of the negative modifiers carrying over into the next round if you took a reaction dodge at the end of the round. So if you did three actions and then took a reaction skill of Dodge, you'd simply apply to additional multiple action penalty on top of any already acrued and roll for that dodge. In this case, it would be Dodge -3D. If the reaction skill was done before the character took all of their actions, the additional modifier would apply to all skills rolls made AFTER the reaction roll as well as the reaction roll itself. So if the character fired a shot, had declared to other actions in the same round but hadn't taken them yet (so was firing the shot at -2D) and then made a reaction Dodge roll, the Dodge roll would be at -3D and both of the other two actions that were declared would also be at a -3D instead of the aforementioned -2D. So yes, he would get a bonus of being able to take his first shot at less of a penalty.

 

Alternatively, however, the player had the option of being able to sacrifice one of his previously declared actions to be replaced with the reaction Dodge, and would therefore roll with the normal -2D since the character then isn't taking an additional action....he's just substituting a regular declared action with the reaction action.

 

Hopefully that clears up any confusion about this whole thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Okay, I've got to pipe up because I've seen so many mistakes on this multiple action thing.

 

To my knowledge it has NEVER been a progressive reduction based on the number of actions. There wasn't a 6D roll, 5D roll, 4D roll, 3D roll for four shots fired.

 

Thanks for the quotes (saved me the time of looking them up). I was starting to think I had been doing things wrong for 22 years ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't quite understand the motivation for restricting the number of actions in a round. In five seconds in real life, a highly skilled shooter can get off several aimed shots -- in a cinematic game a character should be able to do at least as well if not better. Yes, I know characters can do things other than attack, but that's the most common use of multiple actions.

 

I'm not sure where the 13D came from as an example -- in the 1E Sourcebook, Kenobi and Vader have Lightsaber less than 12D and Solo only has 9D+1 in Blaster. Either the stats were really changed in 2E or 13D isn't a good example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Okay, I've got to pipe up...

 

So no matter which version you're going by, it's always been the same. If you take two actions, you minus 1D from BOTH rolls. And so on....

 

Additionally, there was never a case of the negative modifiers carrying over into the next round if you took a reaction dodge at the end of the round... the additional modifier would apply to all skills rolls made AFTER the reaction roll as well as the reaction roll itself...

 

Alternatively, however, the player had the option of being able to sacrifice one of his previously declared actions to be replaced with the reaction Dodge ....he's just substituting a regular declared action with the reaction action.

 

Hopefully that clears up any confusion about this whole thing.

 

Thank you for setting it strait, Grimace! I was going to post the rule quotes of the various editions and respond as you have, but ran out of time previously. We had this discussion a while back on the Rancor Pit too. :cool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...