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Why is D6 legends so...unpopular?

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I've been a fan of d6 for quite a while now, despite only recently getting the hang of the system. I've heard of D6 legend around the net and it seems like the ideal system to me. Unfortunately from what i hear, not a whole lot of people share this particular lregard for the system.

 

So i gotta know. Why is it regarded so negatively?

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I've always felt a D6 was a poor range of values for that type of die pool system. Nowhere is that more obvious than in the Warhammer minis games, but in general, I'm not fond of it.

 

The only system I'm at all familiar with that the Legend method is used in is the DC game as well, which I recall being very poorly thought of by a lot of folks, so I don't imagine that helps either.

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I've always felt a D6 was a poor range of values for that type of die pool system. Nowhere is that more obvious than in the Warhammer minis games, but in general, I'm not fond of it.

 

The only system I'm at all familiar with that the Legend method is used in is the DC game as well, which I recall being very poorly thought of by a lot of folks, so I don't imagine that helps either.

 

That's more or less the sentiment i keep running into. I'm not too good with numbers, and my nephews can often come up with the total while i'm still counting. I Love the success mechanic, and design philosophy aside, i think that joking claim that it was for mathematically challenged players could have been it's biggest selling point, lol.

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I don't know if it's necessarily "negative", as just not cared for. I don't particularly care for D6 Legend simply because it's too simplistic. I like a little more variety in my D6 games, and having the full range of a 6 sided dice, plus up to 2 pips, it a lot better than a total of two options as presented in D6 Legend (success/fail). There's some aspects of D6 Legend that I don't find bad, and there's been talk of some people tweaking D6 Legend to become an amalgam between D6 basic and D6 Legend. If that happens, there might be more potential in D6 Legend. But right now, it's just too limiting for me, so I don't care for it.

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Shadowrun 4th Ed, yes. D6 Legend though is a 4-6 is a success, while in SR4 it is only a 5 or 6.

 

Clarification - D6 Legend counts successes as 3 through 6, only failing on a 1 or 2, which is actually a selling point for me. I like a number of systems with success on a 4-6 (Ubiquity) or 5-6 (Nugget), but for Cinematic action I like the 67% chance of success.

 

I'm the one that Grimace mentioned in his post working on D6 Amalgam. One of the things I'd noticed is that D6 Legend introduced the Wound Points instead of Wound Levels, and also was the first (even before the D6 Space Opera rules for Shatterzone) that changed the human attribute max from 4D to 5D. Then, with the Purgatory version of the D6 Core, many of these were adopted into D6 Classic. What I started, just based on personal preferences and influenced by the work of Mike Lynes and Francois Letarte, was to tweak D6 Legend to include pips and wound levels. What I've got I've used as my own house rules for running a number of settings, the first being a Pulp Era campaign starting in 1932. It runs fast and well.

 

It's a step more toward the simplicity of the old Star Wars rules, but counting successes rather than totaling the dice pool. I see the Purgatory version, while many elements can be removed in order to streamline, as being a step more in the direction of the Hero System or GURPS. I can use that, and am for my Play-By-Post on these boards, but for face-to-face play I like a system that covers all the bases but otherwise gets the hell out of the way.

 

Best thing I see in D6 Amalgam is that I can take pretty much anything published for D6 Classic and use it unmodified, with the exception of how the dice are rolled. One variant I've played with (in a Traveller-type setting) was to make the Skill Levels automatic successes. It reduces the amount of dice in a pool, and also means that professionals don't need to roll to do simple things that they'd be skilled at. So for a very good pilot, landing under good conditions is no challenge at all. I offered that option to my players in the Pulp game, but they decided they wanted more risk, so rolled the total pool. It's another dial to set, based on how the GM wants the game to play, and adaptable to D6 Legend Core.

 

Anyway, once I've completed my work on Lightspeed D6 for ComStar Games, I'll put something together, or possibly if the website is working by then just upload D6 Amalgam into the Open, so that players can look it over and adopt it if they like what I've done.

 

Anyway, sorry for what may be a derailing of the thread, just wanted to address a few points.

 

Carry on, lads!

Edited by Lee Torres

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oh it's all good. My big goals right now are adapting the core books to legends, as my group has been dying to play legends since i ran a totally freeform version of it, just using the core mechanic and four dice each.

 

The session was a freeform abomination, but we had a blast! And as for similarities, so much the better for my reference work. Can't wait to write that subject of enhanced DNA for the space version.

 

It's the drug of the future, you know.

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I'm the one that Grimace mentioned in his post working on D6 Amalgam.

<snip>

Anyway, once I've completed my work on Lightspeed D6 for ComStar Games, I'll put something together, or possibly if the website is working by then just upload D6 Amalgam into the Open, so that players can look it over and adopt it if they like what I've done.

 

I am interested to see what your final version ends up looking like. I always liked the concept of Legend but never got around to doing anything with it.

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Thanks! I'm thinking if all goes according to plan I'll be sending in Lightspeed D6 in December, completing Firefly D6 by February or March, and then D6 Amalgam. Since D6 Amalgam currently exists as a number of different setting-specific files (Pulp, Space Opera, and so on) all I'll really need to do is compile the rules into a "setting-free" file and make it available for download. If WEG has their website percolating by then, I'll just upload it directly there, and anyone interested can take whatever parts appeal to them and ignore the parts that don't.

 

After that, I'll be trying to figure out what to do next! I'm kind of looking forward to having that quandry... :cool:

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Why D6 Legend so unpopular...

 

My opinion is that the problem may not be the system itself but more the context in witch it came.

 

D6 classic came with Star Wars rpg. Star Wars is a great hook and the system was great so D6 players make a connection with a great game.

 

D6 prime or legend came with less popular subjects. D6 prime came with Hercules. It's fun but not the best tv show ever and it's far from Star Wars. D6 legend came with DC universe. Super Heroes is a restritive area that attract only a small portion of gamers in my own opinion. Star Wars is loved by many more kind of people.

 

Unfortunately, besides the game subjects, D6 prime or legend never came out in the best WEG years and that affected the quality a little I think. It's only my view but Hercules was an incomplete game and DC universe was far more complex than D6 should be. It wasn't the greatest way to present that version of D6 and it's great potential.

 

If D6 legend came with Star Wars, I guess it would have been more popular and more widely accepted.

 

Francois Letarte

www.multimania.com/d6rpg

Edited by d6&d6

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Unfortunately, besides the game subjects, D6 prime or legend never came out in the best WEG years and that affected the quality a little I think. It's only my view but Hercules was an incomplete game and DC universe was far more complex than D6 should be. It wasn't the greatest way to present that version of D6 and it's great potential.

 

DCU was also really buggy in how it initially handled some powers like flight and super-speed, and I can't help but think it put off some people; it certainly did me, and I'd thought some D6 varient was a good basis for a superhero game.

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DCU was also really buggy in how it initially handled some powers like flight and super-speed, and I can't help but think it put off some people; it certainly did me, and I'd thought some D6 varient was a good basis for a superhero game.

 

It might have put off some, but I agree that part of the problem was the fact that it was used with more niche genres than "Classic D6" was. That means a smaller following from which to garner support or to even remember it existing. I've played a lot of systems (with quite a few groups) and had never heard of Legends until recently.

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It might have put off some, but I agree that part of the problem was the fact that it was used with more niche genres than "Classic D6" was. That means a smaller following from which to garner support or to even remember it existing. I've played a lot of systems (with quite a few groups) and had never heard of Legends until recently.

 

That might be, but the DCU game was not a terribly niche product, and there are non-licensed superhero games that have done much better. I really think the bugs in the implementation didn't help it there.

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Maybe it was the nature in how it was originally presented or what it was included with, but the D6 Legends never really caught on with me. I do like Supers games, but the DC Universe RPGs was never a big one for me and the Hercules and Xena products always felt like a poor licensing choice by the old owners of WEG. That combined with it coming out at the end or the old WEG's time put it in the backseat to other stuff at the time for me.

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I for one think a d6 legend would be more popular now than when it was released in past games. Namely that it is very close to the shadowrun 4th system and a d6 version of the NWOD system. I know a lot of players of it that hate the new direction of shadowrun 4th, But love the system. (Unless your one of my friends that love the setting and doesn't like the system.)

 

I see a lot of review saying "I love SR 4ths new streamline system". And its so very close to D6 legend system.

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Well, having only took a cursory look at the system in the DC Universe Core rulebook, I would say doing away with the +pips may be a positive. That's really the only thing that jumped out at me so far. I'll have to wait until the new D6 Legends comes out this week to make a real good call on whether I'll like it or not. I hope it comes out quickly, as I'm ramping up for a Steampunk campaign with my group, and I would like to see if it, or the D6 Adventure system is what I'm going to use. We'll be rolling the characters up next Monday, so we'll see what we'll see.

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Well, having only took a cursory look at the system in the DC Universe Core rulebook, I would say doing away with the +pips may be a positive. That's really the only thing that jumped out at me so far. I'll have to wait until the new D6 Legends comes out this week to make a real good call on whether I'll like it or not. I hope it comes out quickly, as I'm ramping up for a Steampunk campaign with my group, and I would like to see if it, or the D6 Adventure system is what I'm going to use. We'll be rolling the characters up next Monday, so we'll see what we'll see.

 

Well its a little more than going away with pips. You count die successes rather than adding up a number of die. Doesn't sound like much of a change. But is a world of difference to some people. My friend who runs world of darkness (Old and new), And now mostly runs shadowrun 4th. Which are both die pool and count successes systems finds counting up 5D+ die pools something that slows the game down in heavy combat.

 

From his point of view it does because he is used to looking at a group of die and counting which one are successes and which ones are not. Not adding them all up. Its a matter of taste really. I'm Glad that there is an alternative for people who want to run/play another way.

 

I would not mind using d6 legends in setting that are combat heavy myself. Even if your a math wiz (which I'm not) or just able to add up die fast (now that I am). Not every one at every game will be. One more tool in the tool box I say.

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Well its a little more than going away with pips. You count die successes rather than adding up a number of die. Doesn't sound like much of a change. But is a world of difference to some people. My friend who runs world of darkness (Old and new), And now mostly runs shadowrun 4th. Which are both die pool and count successes systems finds counting up 5D+ die pools something that slows the game down in heavy combat.

 

One option I've used in running D6 Legend games in the past was to consider the skill dice to be automatic successes, so if a character had 3D in an attribute and 2D in a related skill, then the 2 skill dice are automatically successes, and the variation in the roll is entirely on the attribute dice; 100% chance success for each skill die, 67% chance of success for each attribute die, and provided you're not running superhumans in your setting, the dice pool will be 5D or less.

 

See what the players want to do first, though - in one campaign I ran the players wanted more risk, and opted to play the dice pools as completely variable. That was for a Pulp-style thing set in 1934, but we used the auto-success rule for a D6 Legend Traveller campaign, and it worked quite well...

 

Déjà vu! I said pretty much the same thing back in the seventh post in this thread. It's hell getting old...

Edited by Lee Torres

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"I know a lot of players of it that hate the new direction of shadowrun 4th, But love the system" If this is the case, then perhaps a cyberpunk opend6 that uses d6 legend would score big. At least in theory. Hadn't someone here recently stated they were possibly working on one? Or at least toying with the idea. Perhaps they should be steered towards this thread. Thanks go out to Lee Torres and crew for posting the d6 legend skeleton from the dcu book. That looks like it a was a lot of work to piece together. I appreciate being able to read that material. I meant to state that in the other thread. I think it should have a hallowed place within the milieu that is opend6. I think it is a viable alternative in any genre. It has a taste unto itself while remaining true to the original ease of the system. I personally think d6 classic is a tad more flexible, but that may just be me.

 

If someone does go the cyberpunk route, I'd rather they go back to the William Gibson, Neuromancer beginnings, and branch off in a unique direction there-from. I'd rather not just see a shadowrun clone is my gist.

Edited by Lubidius

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D6 Legends has always tempted me, but one of the things I didn't like was the lack of granularity. You can only increase a skill a whole die code. No +1s or +2s. I really prefer the incremental die increases.

 

As a possible remedy, I was thinking of simplifying the wild die making it a success on 2 - 6 (and ignoring the failure option). Then, for extra plusses of the skill die I would convert one of the dice to another wild die. So for example a 5D skill would roll 4 dice and 1 wild die, a 5D+2 skill would roll 2 dice and 3 wild dice. My back of the envelope calculations lead me to believe the odds will work out okay.

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Check out this thread: http://www.wegfansite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=259 - I've been using this and some other ideas that you can find in the D6 Legend tag cloud (I've added this thread to it) in order to add that granularity back in. The odds of the method I've linked to were "crunched" by Francois Letarte (D6&D6 on these boards) and determined to be almost a perfect match for D6 Classic statistically.

 

Have fun!

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Thanks. I'm not quite clear though. Are you treating the +1 and +2 as "boosts"?

 

Looking back at Francois' thread, it seems his idea is pretty close to mine. He added dice and I just increased the odds of success on some of the existing dice. Great minds think alike and all :)

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I referred to them as Boosts to maintain the terminology of Mike Lynes, who pioneered the reintroduction of pips to D6 Legend in his freeware RPGs for "The Matrix" and "Appleseed," although Mike only uses them for equipment bonuses and I use them the same way Classic does, for precisely the reason that you mention - granularity. The second post on the linked thread is purely optional; something I put in just to let my players visualize their characters more easily, basically. It can be ignored and just build characters as you would for D6 Classic, with dice and pips.

 

In any case, I hope you'll give D6 Legend another try - it's got a lot of possibilities once you start tinkering with it! :D

Edited by Lee Torres

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In any case, I hope you'll give D6 Legend another try - it's got a lot of possibilities once you start tinkering with it! :D

 

I think I may. I'm looking for ways to streamline D6 even further (without making it too simple). A combination of classic pips and legend mechanics may be the answer.

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