skeloric
07-29-2008, 02:24 AM
As most of these so far, this thread start is a distillation of an older thread or threads from elsewhere.
The "--" represent a break in thoughts as this is from multiple locations.
Kadandra.
How many versions have there been?
The Axioms have been all over the board.
The World Laws have been everything under the sun.
My preferred three were to use the ones for Core Earth plus the one from Space Gods that make everything acceptible.
Tech axiom from 26 up to (and beyond) 27.
Social Axiom of at least 22 but ramping up toward 27
Magic Axiom in some vague place above 1 but below 8
Spiritual Axiom between 3 or 4 up to about 9 or 10.
As such i could see Kadandra as a sort of Pre-Psychic "Akasha".
It was the supposed thematic opposite of Tharkold.
Cyber-Angels perhaps? (This option would not be supported by the old fiction and the Spirit Ax should jump a bit...)
Kadandra was a peaceful place where war had not existed for a long time.
They weren't quite ready for war but were able to adapt to it.
A Law of Adaption.
(I have seen a Law of Adaption somewhere else... that one had some really novel concepts regarding suddenly claiming all Foreign Axioms and WLs as ones own while in that other Cosm... Nice idea but a little too powerful.)
This version would be to use a single Foreign WL as ones own.
Suddenly ferocious Kadandrans would certainly scare the hell out of me.
Kadandra might have a Law granting a +1 to their Reality Skill(Power), thus enabling them to go further into Tharkold Realm.
--
If we wanted to run a parallel, we could posit an "angelic" visitation 3000 years ago that prompted some sort of worldwide harmony -- though such does not actually appear in anything written.
Maybe Akashans or at least a something similar?
I personally believe that the Tharkoldu are not an element external to that cosm but rather broke through from a pocket realm into the "Earthlike" core of that cosm.
Which in turn fuels my belief that the World Laws did not actually stray all that far to become what they are now.
In a similar way, Kadandra could have the "Law of Cooperation" as created by Jasyn (Apeiros) Jones and thus attributed to be part of his vision for Tharkold.
The World Law explains to me much more about Kadandra than the target it is currently aimed at.
Perhaps another W-Law is a "Law of Sacrifice" that allows Kadandrans to operate as if they had a perpetual virtual card of the similar nature (whatever name it has that I cannot at this moment recall) in their possession.
Imagine just how difficult it would be to invade such a cosm where a person could guarantee success just by dying in the process.
(This all based upon the references to "Stelae Rats" in the early part of the trilogy, a task that Mara Hatchi-Two recalled performing. Which also smacks of a hypothetical Template title in an unreleased (and unwritten)"Kadandra Sourcebook" which might have been in consideration early on.)
As per whether Kadandra might have a third WL or if it even requires one, I cannot say.
But as Tharkold and Kadandra received a very cursory and -- at times -- seemingly contradictory coverage in the trilogy, almost anything could be written about them.
In Tharkold's case, people already state with a certain amount of confidence that almost anything WAS written about it.
They're not being approving in that statement either.
I like the Tharkold concept as presented in the book, but I will go onto to say that the Social should not be a 20 on any level, but rather stop at closer to 15 for the creation of City-States.
This would lead to a more "dis-united" 'Race' than even the sourcebook presents but I think it the right move.
The scheduling issue referred to in Social 17 (that was excised in the 1.5 book I understand) referenced a change in the setting of clocks to acknowledge the passage of time in an entire region to be unified rather than each city being incrementally off in accordance to when the sun was directly overhead and which had led to scheduling snafus along the train routes.
This was an issue as a train passenger could leave a town at noon, stop at noon again at the next stop to eat lunch and end the trip at noon yet again at their destination as "noon" -- the point at which the sun was at its apex -- chased along with them westward.
Thus trains had a horrendous difficulty in the scheduling, even more so as it was not usually so orderly a progression.
A passenger setting his pocket watch at noon at the beginning might have to reset it several times in his trip to conform to the "local noon" at each stop, which at first had people doubting the watch's reliability but instead was pointing to an "error" in how time was being determined and had the side effect of annoying train passengers and thus train owners who eventually campaigned for a change in system.
Since I do not see a Tharkold unified in trying to guarantee that the trains run on time (or even having such a grandiose train system), I certainly would not think that such would be considered or enforced.
A lack of a "universal time" is a change that would be somewhat jarring to deal with.
Now take that a different direction and wonder at what sort of story could be told in Kadandra, where the group I designated "angels" could have united Kadandra in ancient times and thus reveal to them quite early such a strange notion of a "unified time" long before there were trains to require it.
Such a people would find themselves quite likely united around being all "people of the world" rather than independent warring tribes.
Even if one excised the "angel visitation" and simply made it a natural part of the World Law already at work, imagine the knowledge shared and the drive towards discovery that a people who instinctively deem themselves "world citizens" first and foremost.
A Social 23 to 24 "World Government" could certainly be extrapolated from the scattered references as well.
"Ayn Rand-ean" politics of individuality could also be a strong part of Kadandra as well, since such would be a direct counter to the dehumanizing "pack mentality" of Tharkold.
As such Kadandra would be the "me" to oppose the Alpha-and-pack "we" of Tharkold.
But all of this is extrapolation more from my own view of Tharkold and how Kadandra could be its polarized opposite rather than relying upon the book's own rather sparse references.
The "--" represent a break in thoughts as this is from multiple locations.
Kadandra.
How many versions have there been?
The Axioms have been all over the board.
The World Laws have been everything under the sun.
My preferred three were to use the ones for Core Earth plus the one from Space Gods that make everything acceptible.
Tech axiom from 26 up to (and beyond) 27.
Social Axiom of at least 22 but ramping up toward 27
Magic Axiom in some vague place above 1 but below 8
Spiritual Axiom between 3 or 4 up to about 9 or 10.
As such i could see Kadandra as a sort of Pre-Psychic "Akasha".
It was the supposed thematic opposite of Tharkold.
Cyber-Angels perhaps? (This option would not be supported by the old fiction and the Spirit Ax should jump a bit...)
Kadandra was a peaceful place where war had not existed for a long time.
They weren't quite ready for war but were able to adapt to it.
A Law of Adaption.
(I have seen a Law of Adaption somewhere else... that one had some really novel concepts regarding suddenly claiming all Foreign Axioms and WLs as ones own while in that other Cosm... Nice idea but a little too powerful.)
This version would be to use a single Foreign WL as ones own.
Suddenly ferocious Kadandrans would certainly scare the hell out of me.
Kadandra might have a Law granting a +1 to their Reality Skill(Power), thus enabling them to go further into Tharkold Realm.
--
If we wanted to run a parallel, we could posit an "angelic" visitation 3000 years ago that prompted some sort of worldwide harmony -- though such does not actually appear in anything written.
Maybe Akashans or at least a something similar?
I personally believe that the Tharkoldu are not an element external to that cosm but rather broke through from a pocket realm into the "Earthlike" core of that cosm.
Which in turn fuels my belief that the World Laws did not actually stray all that far to become what they are now.
In a similar way, Kadandra could have the "Law of Cooperation" as created by Jasyn (Apeiros) Jones and thus attributed to be part of his vision for Tharkold.
The World Law explains to me much more about Kadandra than the target it is currently aimed at.
Perhaps another W-Law is a "Law of Sacrifice" that allows Kadandrans to operate as if they had a perpetual virtual card of the similar nature (whatever name it has that I cannot at this moment recall) in their possession.
Imagine just how difficult it would be to invade such a cosm where a person could guarantee success just by dying in the process.
(This all based upon the references to "Stelae Rats" in the early part of the trilogy, a task that Mara Hatchi-Two recalled performing. Which also smacks of a hypothetical Template title in an unreleased (and unwritten)"Kadandra Sourcebook" which might have been in consideration early on.)
As per whether Kadandra might have a third WL or if it even requires one, I cannot say.
But as Tharkold and Kadandra received a very cursory and -- at times -- seemingly contradictory coverage in the trilogy, almost anything could be written about them.
In Tharkold's case, people already state with a certain amount of confidence that almost anything WAS written about it.
They're not being approving in that statement either.
I like the Tharkold concept as presented in the book, but I will go onto to say that the Social should not be a 20 on any level, but rather stop at closer to 15 for the creation of City-States.
This would lead to a more "dis-united" 'Race' than even the sourcebook presents but I think it the right move.
The scheduling issue referred to in Social 17 (that was excised in the 1.5 book I understand) referenced a change in the setting of clocks to acknowledge the passage of time in an entire region to be unified rather than each city being incrementally off in accordance to when the sun was directly overhead and which had led to scheduling snafus along the train routes.
This was an issue as a train passenger could leave a town at noon, stop at noon again at the next stop to eat lunch and end the trip at noon yet again at their destination as "noon" -- the point at which the sun was at its apex -- chased along with them westward.
Thus trains had a horrendous difficulty in the scheduling, even more so as it was not usually so orderly a progression.
A passenger setting his pocket watch at noon at the beginning might have to reset it several times in his trip to conform to the "local noon" at each stop, which at first had people doubting the watch's reliability but instead was pointing to an "error" in how time was being determined and had the side effect of annoying train passengers and thus train owners who eventually campaigned for a change in system.
Since I do not see a Tharkold unified in trying to guarantee that the trains run on time (or even having such a grandiose train system), I certainly would not think that such would be considered or enforced.
A lack of a "universal time" is a change that would be somewhat jarring to deal with.
Now take that a different direction and wonder at what sort of story could be told in Kadandra, where the group I designated "angels" could have united Kadandra in ancient times and thus reveal to them quite early such a strange notion of a "unified time" long before there were trains to require it.
Such a people would find themselves quite likely united around being all "people of the world" rather than independent warring tribes.
Even if one excised the "angel visitation" and simply made it a natural part of the World Law already at work, imagine the knowledge shared and the drive towards discovery that a people who instinctively deem themselves "world citizens" first and foremost.
A Social 23 to 24 "World Government" could certainly be extrapolated from the scattered references as well.
"Ayn Rand-ean" politics of individuality could also be a strong part of Kadandra as well, since such would be a direct counter to the dehumanizing "pack mentality" of Tharkold.
As such Kadandra would be the "me" to oppose the Alpha-and-pack "we" of Tharkold.
But all of this is extrapolation more from my own view of Tharkold and how Kadandra could be its polarized opposite rather than relying upon the book's own rather sparse references.