Shatterzone 2.0 (a stand-alone game using the TORG 2.0 system)

[Whill]

The plan was always to release SZ as a separate, stand-alone game after Torg 2.0, but also include Torg specific rules as well. I tended to imagine the shatterzone itself as being the a storm region separating two distinct cosms. After all, if you have the realities of two cosms clash in space, what do you think the resulting storm would be? The matter itself could either have been created by the storm (unlikely) or drawn to the storm to "feed" it somehow.


I was merely clarifying my previous plan, that is, to integrate it with Torg, but also publish it in a format that would be stand-alone.


I mean, publish it using Torg rules, but release it WITH the ruleset included, rather than as ONLY a sourcebook for Torg.

Maybe I'm slow, but I have finally understood Eric's plans for Shatterzone. Since these plans were discussed in a thread about Shatterzone cards, and there is also an active thread called Shatterzone 2.0 Cancelled, I thought it might be best to create this new thread for clarification to all WEG fans reading this forum.

The good news is, Shatterzone 2.0 is not cancelled. Shatterzone 2.0 is planned to be released using the TORG 2.0 system so it is completely compatible with being a TORG cosm, but it will not be only a TORG sourebook. Shatterzone 2.0 will include the TORG 2.0 ruleset so it can be played as a stand-alone game as well.

Thank you, Eric. And as always, please feel free to clarify further and discuss these ideas here.

[hellsreach]

If fairness, the possible release of Shatterzone hinges on a lot of things and while I highly value input and opines regarding how the game would be recieved, it is hardly a foregone conclusion whether it will come out at any time int he future.

Again, I like the idea of Shatterzone as a Torg cosm as I think there are a number of things (the Zone as a massive, in-space reality storm, "invaders" from a distant area [another reality?],etc.) that fit well within the Torg cosmology. The simple fact that Shatterzone's system is so very close to Torg makes integrating the two quite easy.

My trepidation regarding Shatterzone's re-release because of Bloodshadows. A number of studies of the degree of success or failure of various WEG products could be made, but there is absolutely no doubt that Bloodshadows D6 was a flop. Similarly, FoA didn't do spectacularly well either, but I see that as being due to Fires poor execution. Bloodshadows, on the other hand, is see as a failure because it was not an robust, original setting. Robust, yes, but not original. Thus, I wanted to NOT make the same mistake with Shatterzone. Since it is not NEW, then I don't think it would be a good game as the flagship Sci-fi setting.

[Whill]

In fairness, the possible release of Shatterzone hinges on a lot of things and while I highly value input and opines regarding how the game would be recieved, it is hardly a foregone conclusion whether it will come out at any time int he future.

Again, I like the idea of Shatterzone as a Torg cosm as I think there are a number of things (the Zone as a massive, in-space reality storm, "invaders" from a distant area [another reality?],etc.) that fit well within the Torg cosmology. The simple fact that Shatterzone's system is so very close to Torg makes integrating the two quite easy.

My trepidation regarding Shatterzone's re-release because of Bloodshadows. A number of studies of the degree of success or failure of various WEG products could be made, but there is absolutely no doubt that Bloodshadows D6 was a flop. Similarly, FoA didn't do spectacularly well either, but I see that as being due to Fires poor execution. Bloodshadows, on the other hand, is see as a failure because it was not an robust, original setting. Robust, yes, but not original. Thus, I wanted to NOT make the same mistake with Shatterzone. Since it is not NEW, then I don't think it would be a good game as the flagship Sci-fi setting.

Thanks again, Eric. I understand that these are just plans and not guarantees of future releases. But on the same note, since there is a possiblity of release, is it not a foregone conclusion that Shatterzone 2.0 will be cancelled. It could still happen.

And the fact that Shatterzone's system was based on TORG would make it easier to integrate them, as opposed to making Shatterzone D6.

[The Game Guy]

If fairness, the possible release of Shatterzone hinges on a lot of things and while I highly value input and opines regarding how the game would be recieved, it is hardly a foregone conclusion whether it will come out at any time int he future.

Again, I like the idea of Shatterzone as a Torg cosm as I think there are a number of things (the Zone as a massive, in-space reality storm, "invaders" from a distant area [another reality?],etc.) that fit well within the Torg cosmology. The simple fact that Shatterzone's system is so very close to Torg makes integrating the two quite easy.

This confuses me, because you told me you don't think that Shatterzone as a standalone game would be commercially viable. I was going to put together a Shatterzone revision and you told me that you didn't think it would be viable and not to bother with it.

So which is it? You aren't being clear

[Whill]

My trepidation regarding Shatterzone's re-release because of Bloodshadows. A number of studies of the degree of success or failure of various WEG products could be made, but there is absolutely no doubt that Bloodshadows D6 was a flop. Similarly, FoA didn't do spectacularly well either, but I see that as being due to Fire's poor execution. Bloodshadows, on the other hand, is see as a failure because it was not an robust, original setting. Robust, yes, but not original. Thus, I wanted to NOT make the same mistake with Shatterzone. Since it is not NEW, then I don't think it would be a good game as the flagship Sci-fi setting.


This confuses me, because you told me you don't think that Shatterzone as a standalone game would be commercially viable. I was going to put together a Shatterzone revision and you told me that you didn't think it would be viable and not to bother with it.

So which is it? You aren't being clear

Maybe he meant it wouldn't be viable as D6 Space worldbook, like Fires of Amatsumara. Game Guy, weren't you interested in producing a full-blown D6 conversion?

[The Game Guy]

Maybe he meant it wouldn't be viable as D6 Space worldbook, like Fires of Amatsumara. Game Guy, weren't you interested in producing a full-blown D6 conversion?

No, he didnt think Shatterzone was viable commercially at all. And after thinking about it I agree with him. This was talking to him personally face to face, not on a forum.

Shatterzone really doesn't have anything that can't be done in Serenity, Mongoose Traveller or any other sci-fi game that is out there.

[hellsreach]

If there is every going to be a rerelease of Shatterzone, it would be AFTER the release of Torg specifically BECAUSE it could work well as Torg Cosm. Releasing Shatterzone as a simple rehash of the current game would be a mistake. Releasing it as a revision of it's current system, but NOT Torg would just create yet another revision of the system similar to Torg, but NOT Torg (So our list of Torg system variants, both existing and prospective, would be Torg, Shatterzone, Masterbook, Shatterzone 2, and Torg 2 -- all similar, not not fully compatible). Release Shatterzone as a D6 game is not a good idea because Shatterzone is simply not capabile being a flagship Sci-Fi setting and would thus would be competition for time and money with any other flagship Sci-Fi setting coming out in the future. I think any flagship sci-fi setting being released for D6 would have to be both robust and original.

So Shatterzone as a stand-alone D6 Game --> No, for the above reasons.

Shatterzone as a rehash of old material --> rehashing is not a successful plan for any game.

Shatterzone as worked as a stand-alone game --> It would not be a horrible mistake, but if would create yet another variant of Torg that would not be compatible with a newer version.

Shatterzone as 100% compatible with Torg 2 --> Best chance of success, but that depends on Torg 2 existing. Even though I think adapting Shatterzone to the Torg 2 system would give it its best chance of success (adapting it, meaning it would be a stand-alone game that has all information available to play it IN Torg if so desired) that doesn't mean it will happen or is planned in any way.

[The Game Guy]

Shatterzone as 100% compatible with Torg 2 --> Best chance of success, but that depends on Torg 2 existing. Even though I think adapting Shatterzone to the Torg 2 system would give it its best chance of success (adapting it, meaning it would be a stand-alone game that has all information available to play it IN Torg if so desired) that doesn't mean it will happen or is planned in any way.

Well, this is totally different then what you told me when we talked that one night.

At any rate, I agree with your original assessment when we talked that Shatterzone really wouldn't be a commercial sucess, with D6 or with the Torg rules. There is nothing special about the setting, it's a kitchen sink kind og game that really just has everything thrown into it.

It's not special like Septimus, or Serenity or other sci-fi games that have been released. It's a generic rpg with every possiable bit that you can think of thrown in it.

When you do Torg 2.0 I think you should use Septimus as a Cosm and that is it.

Hell, this forum is barely used enough where I wonder if I should just throw all the Shatterzone posts back into Other WEG games. No one really talks about Shatterzone because I don't think it was every really popular. Torg at least was popular and as many of the R&E books as you have sold show that a new version is worth it. Shatterzone, not so much

[hellsreach]

One more time, just to be perfectly clear.

I don't think publishing Shatterzone is a very good idea as I don't think that it would be a viable product. But, of all the publishing options reasonably available to us, publishing it for Torg 2.0 is the BEST option. That doesn't make it a good option, but the best available.

Why would Shatterzone powered by Torg2 by the best option?

Because you to capitalize on Torg popularity to sell SZ. People wanting more options for Torg, might look to SZ to fill out an ever expanding cosmverse.

and, publishing a standalone game, 100% compatible with Torg 2, shows that Torg is bigger and more open ended than one simple game would allow. The Possibility Wars is just one tiny (albeit significant) part of whole Torg cosmology. Publishing games "powered by" Torg 2.0 would be a good step in proving that, and Shatterzone would be an easy product to do that with since less work would have to be done to get it working for Torg 2.0 AND there are mysterious expects of SZ that are easily answered by reality physics.

In that way, publishing Shatterzone would not be for the sake of the Shatterzone universe, but for the sake of Torg 2.

[hellsreach]

When you do Torg 2.0 I think you should use Septimus as a Cosm and that is it.


That's not really an option.

[The Game Guy]

That's not really an option.

Woops I meant Shatterzone, not Septimus (Damn typos)

[Whill]

Why would Shatterzone powered by Torg2 by the best option?

Because you to capitalize on Torg popularity to sell SZ. People wanting more options for Torg, might look to SZ to fill out an ever expanding cosmverse.

and, publishing a standalone game, 100% compatible with Torg 2, shows that Torg is bigger and more open ended than one simple game would allow. The Possibility Wars is just one tiny (albeit significant) part of whole Torg cosmology. Publishing games "powered by" Torg 2.0 would be a good step in proving that, and Shatterzone would be an easy product to do that with since less work would have to be done to get it working for Torg 2.0 AND there are mysterious expects of SZ that are easily answered by reality physics.

In that way, publishing Shatterzone would not be for the sake of the Shatterzone universe, but for the sake of Torg 2.

Pulbishing Shatterzone 2.0 as a cosm option is good for TORG 2.0, but Shatterzone 2.0 being published with a complete TORG 2.0 ruleset meeded for that world means you can still have a new stand-alone Shatterzone game. It's killing 2 birds with 1 stone! Makes a lot of sense, Eric.

[Lee Torres]

Y'know, when I heard about the discussions around a Shatterzone revival and the reasons not to, I thought "that's fair enough - it doesn't bring much new that hasn't been done elsewhere."

But I think Eric's got what I consider a game changer in his earlier posts. If the 'Zone itself is the shockwave/storm between two different realities, well THAT I haven't seen done. I think it could be fantastic, Eric - whether it happens or not, it's a hell of a grand concept.

There's that famous Carl Sagan quote about the aliens we may some day meet being so different from us we'd have more in common with a tree than with them - so if the races in the SZ universe were perhaps a little jaded, with contact between a number of alien races being quite commonplace, and then you turn that on its ear by bringing in the threat of an entirely different universe... I like it. Well done.

[The Game Guy]

Y'know, when I heard about the discussions around a Shatterzone revival and the reasons not to, I thought "that's fair enough - it doesn't bring much new that hasn't been done elsewhere."

But I think Eric's got what I consider a game changer in his earlier posts. If the 'Zone itself is the shockwave/storm between two different realities, well THAT I haven't seen done. I think it could be fantastic, Eric - whether it happens or not, it's a hell of a grand concept.

The thing about Shatterzone and why I don't think it would be worth doing an updated version:

1) It doesn't have anything that is special. It's a kitchen sink kind of game that just has a ton of things thrown into

2) There are plenty of sci fi games that it would have to compete in that do a lot of what it does but better

3) Why do a revision of a game that wasn't popular in the first place

I think it was good Eric talked me out of doing it.

[Lee Torres]

1) It doesn't have anything that is special. It's a kitchen sink kind of game that just has a ton of things thrown into

2) There are plenty of sci fi games that it would have to compete in that do a lot of what it does but better

Out of curiosity, did you actually read my post before responding? Sorry to sound snarky, but what published science fiction rules would do this well, without house-ruling it all to hell and gone?

When I said Eric had introduced a game changer, I meant he has changed the Shatterzone concept enough that it would be worth doing. If options are left in the back of the book to merge it into the Torg mainstream it becomes even more unique; the option to merge any Torg cosm as the "invading reality creating the 'zone" makes it a more serious version of a game like Rifts, and I've thought gaming could use something like that for a long time.

Much like any gaming discussion these days, I think what terms are meant to convey is important - kitchen sink not in the sense that it has the option to handle science fiction from Aliens to Dune without breaking; this is kitchen sink in that it creates an infinite sandbox - the beings in the Shatterzone universe, particularly if options are given to "build your own cosm" in the new edition, can be faced with anything from enemies able to violate the laws of physics and use magic in a setting where magic does not work, or enemies that come from outside or before the universe (Shatterzone as "Call of Cthulhu: 2300" anyone?)

What I was attempting to say in the previous post was that Eric's idea is sufficiently different from what Shatterzone was to make it worth re-examining.

[Kalzazz]

Out of curiousity, what other Sci Fi games are there that Shatterzone is inferior against?

Star Wars D6 is years dead (if still going strong), Alternity seems to be dead, and uhm

Theres GURPS, but, Ill admit for me personally GURPS becomes pretty much unworkable at high tech levels (Im a major GURPS fan, but only at mostly modern and lower tech levels, high tech makes the game crash and burn with cumbersomeness)

Hmm. And theres White Wolf's Sci Fi game (Trinity?), and BESM (now dead) had Sci Fi stuff, and HERO I think. TSR's Spelljammer is dead I think

There was one game that seemed seriously cool that seemed about 60's era cars with tail fins in space with alien babes and such, but I could never remember the name of it to buy it

[Havard]

Some sci fi games out there:

* Traveller (The new Mongoose version)
* Babylon 5 (D20)
* Serenity (Cortex system)
* Battlestar Galactica (Cortex system)
* Star Wars Saga (D20)

Havard

[skeloric]

Some sci fi games out there:

* Traveller (The new Mongoose version)
* Babylon 5 (D20)
* Serenity (Cortex system)
* Battlestar Galactica (Cortex system)
* Star Wars Saga (D20)

Havard

If anything, Shatterzone is in a better position to work than it did 15 years ago, with a much smaller collection of Sci-Fi RPGs than there used to be.

[Havard]

If anything, Shatterzone is in a better position to work than it did 15 years ago, with a much smaller collection of Sci-Fi RPGs than there used to be.

True. That could also mean that the market for Sci Fi RPGs is smaller. I have always found GMing sci fi rpgs much harder than running fantasy ones.

I still think SZ has something the games I mentioned above don't though.

Oh, and I forgot to mention Burning Empires... (RPG.net sweetheart if nothing else)

Havard

[Lee Torres]

There's actually still a pretty fair representation - Thousand Suns, HardNova II, Starblazer Adventures, and all of the ones mentioned above - but you'd need to buy a bunch of D20 books to set up an invasion from an alternate universe; it's possible, but as I said, some amount of house-ruling would typically creep in. If Shatterzone was released as a Torg 2.0 powered rules-set, I think it'd generate some interest. I'm interested, and I already own most everything mentioned on this thread, plus a mess of long-defunct games like Space Opera, Other Suns, Ringworld, and the list goes on...

I think the potential exists to make this into an rpg along the lines of the "Neutronium Alchemist" novels, and I think that's a gap worth attempting to plug. Done right, it could be very popular and thus lucrative for WEG.

With the Shatterzone itself getting a makeover, so too should the alien races and the human civilization get an update - make them more like the science fiction being published now instead of what was big in the eighties and nineties, and upgrade the actual science to be more up-to-date, and then throw in the invading reality and put the blender on high. I don't think I've seen such a thing before, at least not done well, and I for one would like to see it.

[hellsreach]

There's actually still a pretty fair representation - Thousand Suns, HardNova II, Starblazer Adventures, and all of the ones mentioned above - but you'd need to buy a bunch of D20 books to set up an invasion from an alternate universe; it's possible, but as I said, some amount of house-ruling would typically creep in. If Shatterzone was released as a Torg 2.0 powered rules-set, I think it'd generate some interest. I'm interested, and I already own most everything mentioned on this thread, plus a mess of long-defunct games like Space Opera, Other Suns, Ringworld, and the list goes on...

I think the potential exists to make this into an rpg along the lines of the "Neutronium Alchemist" novels, and I think that's a gap worth attempting to plug. Done right, it could be very popular and thus lucrative for WEG.

With the Shatterzone itself getting a makeover, so too should the alien races and the human civilization get an update - make them more like the science fiction being published now instead of what was big in the eighties and nineties, and upgrade the actual science to be more up-to-date, and then throw in the invading reality and put the blender on high. I don't think I've seen such a thing before, at least not done well, and I for one would like to see it.

As I said so time ago, I think Shatterzone would be better served if it was modified as a transhumanist game with spacefaring, rather that generic science-fiction with cyberpunk influences.

Of course, that would be very close to Septimus in many ways, which has a HUGE element of transhumanism.

[Lee Torres]

As I said so time ago, I think Shatterzone would be better served if it was modified as a transhumanist game with spacefaring, rather that generic science-fiction with cyberpunk influences.

Of course, that would be very close to Septimus in many ways, which has a HUGE element of transhumanism.

Eric, you evil tease... Go and gloat over the Septimus proof in the three-ring binder and softly chuckle, knowing we lesser mortals can only dream of possessing it. :mad:

I was all smug with owning LUGs Dune: Chronicles of the Imperium until TGG dropped that you had the Septimus binder; you totally pwned me, or as they used to say in Mortal Kombat, "Flawless victory!" :D

Seriously, though - Shatterzone the way you've described would be hot like magma - I know you've got a ton on your plate, but this would be a good thing to know is rolling down the road, even if it's years away...

One weird idea I had - what if the original Shatterzone universe was one of the invading Cosms? ;)

[Kalzazz]

What is a transhumanist game?

[Lee Torres]

Transhuman RPGs would be along the lines of (the currently best known) GURPS Transhuman Space and the forthcoming Eclipse Phase (http://eclipsephase.com/); games in which the tenets of the transhumanist concept are realized - genetic manipulation to remove weaknesses or disease, humans engineered to prosper in normally inimicable environments (deep space, underwater, high pressure, zero-gravity, and so on). Also, utilizing technology to fully integrate our lives into technological benefits, such as downloading your mind into a machine shell for whatever purpose, or uploading your mind into a digital system to provide a form of "immortality."

There's a lot more to it, really, but that's as close to the "in a nutshell" view as I can do off the top of my head.

[hellsreach]

Eric, you evil tease... Go and gloat over the Septimus proof in the three-ring binder and softly chuckle, knowing we lesser mortals can only dream of possessing it. :mad:

I was all smug with owning LUGs Dune: Chronicles of the Imperium until TGG dropped that you had the Septimus binder; you totally pwned me, or as they used to say in Mortal Kombat, "Flawless victory!" :D

Seriously, though - Shatterzone the way you've described would be hot like magma - I know you've got a ton on your plate, but this would be a good thing to know is rolling down the road, even if it's years away...

One weird idea I had - what if the original Shatterzone universe was one of the invading Cosms? ;)

I have Dune, too.

[Lee Torres]

I have Dune, too.

LOL

Totally PWN'd! I humbly concede defeat. :p

[Whill]

I was all smug with owning LUGs Dune: Chronicles of the Imperium


I have Dune, too.

I don't have Septimus or Dune. :mad:

[Havard]

As I said so time ago, I think Shatterzone would be better served if it was modified as a transhumanist game with spacefaring, rather that generic science-fiction with cyberpunk influences.

Do you mean transhumanism in the sense of replacing cyberware with genetic enhancements or something bigger? I don't think cyberware works too well the way it is presented in SZ, but I do like the cyberpunk-ish themes of a fairly gritty universe with PCs taking on the role of the little guy working for THE MAN and being bullied around by large corporations.

I have been critical of the aliens in the past, but I think it is more a matter of them needing some refining to make them more interesting. It seemed to me that social conflict is more important in shaping the SZ universe than conflict between races (ie nations). It could be interesting to see the Consortium break up and have the major races form alliances with minor races. Ofcourse, the presence of the Fleet prevents this, but if the Fleet was tied up fighting invaders...

Havard

[Havard]

I don't have Septimus or Dune. :mad:

Ditto. And I really really wanted to get my hands on both of these.

Havard

[Havard]

If fairness, the possible release of Shatterzone hinges on a lot of things and while I highly value input and opines regarding how the game would be recieved, it is hardly a foregone conclusion whether it will come out at any time int he future.

Again, I like the idea of Shatterzone as a Torg cosm as I think there are a number of things (the Zone as a massive, in-space reality storm, "invaders" from a distant area [another reality?],etc.) that fit well within the Torg cosmology. The simple fact that Shatterzone's system is so very close to Torg makes integrating the two quite easy.

One interesting idea here is to present the ShatterZone universe as a possible future of Core Earth. At first I thought you were planning to have people from SZ invade Core Earth, but if SZ is a sort of alternate TORG campaign, where Core Earth has advanced to the 25th Century and is then invaded by a (possibly) new reality, that would make it much more interesting.



My trepidation regarding Shatterzone's re-release because of Bloodshadows. A number of studies of the degree of success or failure of various WEG products could be made, but there is absolutely no doubt that Bloodshadows D6 was a flop. Similarly, FoA didn't do spectacularly well either, but I see that as being due to Fires poor execution. Bloodshadows, on the other hand, is see as a failure because it was not an robust, original setting. Robust, yes, but not original. Thus, I wanted to NOT make the same mistake with Shatterzone. Since it is not NEW, then I don't think it would be a good game as the flagship Sci-fi setting.

I wouldn't say Bloodshadow isn't original. Its just a really hard to grasp concept since it runs in so many directions. IMO Fires was a bit too small for my liking. I would have liked to have it linked to a bigger universe.

One route you could have gone with SZ is to ditch the brand name, but keep the universe. Advance the timeline a century and change it into whatever you want it to be like. Fans would still know it is SZ and you would have a solid framework to build on. At the same time it could be presented as something new to new players who would then become fascinated with the older products as well. I guess this is sort of what WotC is doing with the Forgotten Realms. Not sure if that is something you would want to aspire to or not, but for SZ I think this would have made sense.

Havard

[hellsreach]

One interesting idea here is to present the ShatterZone universe as a possible future of Core Earth. At first I thought you were planning to have people from SZ invade Core Earth, but if SZ is a sort of alternate TORG campaign, where Core Earth has advanced to the 25th Century and is then invaded by a (possibly) new reality, that would make it much more interesting.




I wouldn't say Bloodshadow isn't original. Its just a really hard to grasp concept since it runs in so many directions. IMO Fires was a bit too small for my liking. I would have liked to have it linked to a bigger universe.

One route you could have gone with SZ is to ditch the brand name, but keep the universe. Advance the timeline a century and change it into whatever you want it to be like. Fans would still know it is SZ and you would have a solid framework to build on. At the same time it could be presented as something new to new players who would then become fascinated with the older products as well. I guess this is sort of what WotC is doing with the Forgotten Realms. Not sure if that is something you would want to aspire to or not, but for SZ I think this would have made sense.

Havard


I mean that Bloodshadows is not original in the sense that is was done as Masterbook already.

[Havard]

I mean that Bloodshadows is not original in the sense that is was done as Masterbook already.

Aha, I see what you mean.
In that sense, the only setting which WEG owns that is worth bringing back is probably TORG. None of the others were popular enough to have a fan base strong enough for it to be worth bringing back. I still think SZ has other qualities that make it worth bringing back, but alot boils down to how that is done, should it have a chance of succeeding.

In retrospect I would agree that bringing back Bloodshadows as a sort of flagship for the D6 Adventure line probably wasn't such a good idea. I think it would have been better to have a more generic D6 Adventure Setting appear first and then Bloodshadows later as a one book thing.

Havard

[The Game Guy]

True. That could also mean that the market for Sci Fi RPGs is smaller. I have always found GMing sci fi rpgs much harder than running fantasy ones.

Havard

Hmm, I am exactly the opposite. I find Fantasy harder to run the sci-fi. But then I love the sci-fi genre and I really dont care for fantasy. For some reason fantasy just bores me.

[The Game Guy]

If anything, Shatterzone is in a better position to work than it did 15 years ago, with a much smaller collection of Sci-Fi RPGs than there used to be.

Actually there have been a few sci-fi rpgs that have come out recently and I know there are still ones coming out, so the sci-fi sector is building up pretty nicely. Maybe small compared to D&D, but not as small as it used to be.

Sci-fi suddenly has become an in thing. Not that I am complaining, its a genre I like

[Havard]

Hmm, I am exactly the opposite. I find Fantasy harder to run the sci-fi. But then I love the sci-fi genre and I really dont care for fantasy. For some reason fantasy just bores me.

Well that is cool. It probably has to do with how much of each genre we have been exposed to, as well as personal preferences ofcourse. The majority of the RPGs I have played and novels I have read have been from the fantasy genre (compared to sci fi) so I find I have much more to steal from and more sources of inspiration, whereas in sci fi I am often stuck for ideas. Also, I find that I am intimidated by science expert players who will point out flaws in my portrayal of tech or laws of physics.... :o

Havard

[Whill]

I love fantasy and sci-fi both, but fantasy is much more difficult for me too. Fantasy has magic (a large part of what makes it fantasy and not reality). Magic can be complicated.

Sci-fi doesn't have magic. And I have found that there are tons of sc-fi plot inspirations every which way I turn. I have so many possible Star Wars plots that there is no way I could ever run them all.

[hellsreach]

I hugely prefer fantasy to sci-fi. Sci-Fi has a certain degree of responsibility to scientific reality that fantasy need not has as much.

[Whill]

I find that I am intimidated by science expert players who will point out flaws in my portrayal of tech or laws of physics...


Sci-Fi has a certain degree of responsibility to scientific reality that fantasy need not has as much.

I happen to be one of those science nerds, so a lot of what I put in my games is scientically sound. However, we're talking about Star Wars that has sound in space and many other fantastic things. I can suspend disbelief with the best of them. I don't have any trouble with scietific players - I always have an explaination for them that usually shuts them up. Not always a scientific explaination, but an explaination just the same. :cool:

[The Game Guy]

I hugely prefer fantasy to sci-fi. Sci-Fi has a certain degree of responsibility to scientific reality that fantasy need not has as much.

Well, with suspension of belief that is easily fixed (lets face it, how realistic are light sabers in Star Wars).

[hellsreach]

Well, with suspension of belief that is easily fixed (lets face it, how realistic are light sabers in Star Wars).

I also don't like the impersonal aspect of ranged combat, which is MOST of what you deal with in Sci-fi combat.

[skeloric]

I also don't like the impersonal aspect of ranged combat, which is MOST of what you deal with in Sci-fi combat.
Unless you do the whole "medieval setting transplanted to outer space" with force-swords and such.

[hellsreach]

Unless you do the whole "medieval setting transplanted to outer space" with force-swords and such.

Then it is not sci-fi.

[skeloric]

Then it is not sci-fi.
Damn, even with spaceships and robots added?

[hellsreach]

Damn, even with spaceships and robots added?

Oh, come one. You are drawing at straws here.

[skeloric]

Oh, come one. You are drawing at straws here.
Yeas I am, I take it they break and I fall down and go boom?

[Whill]

There is such a genre as "space fantasy", and amalgamation of space opera and fantasy. Spaceship, robots, laser guns and magic.

[The Game Guy]

I also don't like the impersonal aspect of ranged combat, which is MOST of what you deal with in Sci-fi combat.

So you like to be in a person's face and looking in their eye when you are killing them with a sword? Is that what you prefer?

[Whill]

Donlt get me wrong: I love my sword fights. Exciting stuff. Especially lightsaber battles because they are really just sword fights taken up a couple notches. Light flashing and sounds humming and crackling. Good stuff.

But I also think sci-fi ranged combat is a lot of fun too (including spaceship combat). I love the excitment of running through corridors and blaster bolts flying by. It takes me back to when I was a kid and Dad brought my brother and I home from seeing the first Star Wars movie in the theater. We were running all over the house pretending we were in the Death Star running from stormtroopers and blasting them. Mom was frantic and whining that it was past our bed time. Dad said, "Honey, you're gonna have let them run it off. They just saw the greatest adventure movie of all time. They are way too excited to go to sleep now."

One time a few years ago, I attempted to start a deep and philosphical discussion about Star Wars and asked one of my buddies why he loved Star Wars. He said, "Um, I dunno, I guess it's all the the "djchew-djchew, djchew-djchew" [imitates blaster bolt sound effects]. :)

The unexpected simplicity of the answer was so undeniably true. I said, "You know what? Me too." :cool:

[hellsreach]

So you like to be in a person's face and looking in their eye when you are killing them with a sword? Is that what you prefer?

Well... obviously ;)

[The Game Guy]

Well... obviously ;)

Well there are some fun aspects to that, but I still really like sci-fi though if a good fantasy game came along I would give it a try.

For me though I think Fantasy is way over done.

[Havard]

Interesting thoughts on sci fi vs fantasy guys. I had never thought about how close combat would play into it.

Come to think of it though, when melee combat does occur in a sci fi setting, that usually means the heroes are in big trouble doesn't it? Your laser rifle has jammed and there is a big acid-for-blood Alien chasing you. I think ShatterZone is the kind of genre where that happens from time to time. Sure there are cool and fancy weapons out there. Its just that you can't afford them, at least the kind that doesn't jam. (Where is the evil grin smiley when you need him?) :)

Havard

[The Game Guy]

Interesting thoughts on sci fi vs fantasy guys. I had never thought about how close combat would play into it.

Come to think of it though, when melee combat does occur in a sci fi setting, that usually means the heroes are in big trouble doesn't it? Your laser rifle has jammed and there is a big acid-for-blood Alien chasing you. I think ShatterZone is the kind of genre where that happens from time to time. Sure there are cool and fancy weapons out there. Its just that you can't afford them, at least the kind that doesn't jam. (Where is the evil grin smiley when you need him?) :)

Havard

If/when Torg 2.0 actually happens I hope we see a Shatterzone using a new system. Anything has to be better then the system that it uses

[Havard]

If/when Torg 2.0 actually happens I hope we see a Shatterzone using a new system. Anything has to be better then the system that it uses

So you keep saying. While I have no doubt Torg 2.0 will be better than the current SZ system, the existing one worked quite well for our group :)

Havard