Let's Hope

[imported_Magman]

For those that care and live in the United States. Let us hope our next president does a better job with our country than the last one did.

[pathfinderap]

I was just about to post about the Obama win, I'm sure this is only a good thing, and I'm sure his achievements will not end at getting in to the white house,


"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom"

Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities

[imported_Magman]

I again hope everybody puts their political and racial indifferences aside and joins together to fix the US which is in shambles right now. It just seems to me that the US somehow took a detour from the rest of the world and ended up in a ditch somewhere. Now we need to play catch-up to them and repair all the broken parts of the country before getting back on the right road again.

Just my 2 cents

[skeloric]

Let us hope our next president does a better job with our country than the last one did.
A trained monkey could do the job better than Bush.
Thank God we got someone a lot better than a trained monkey, a McCain victory would not have done as much good for our national image

[Stormchild]

It was fascinating. I have been sitting in a pub owned by an exiled african when Obama won the primaries. And the spirit of hope that his election would not only change the US but the whole world was obvious in germans and african alike. Even people in that pub whom I would consider right-wing (though not too much or they wouldn't have been in that pub) hoped for Obama to win.

In Germany, we had the feeling that we lost a close friend during the Bush presidency. We always considered ourselves to be close allies to the US not only politically but foremost ideologically. But this was put under a lot of strain by Bush's policy. And of course, what began as domestic problems on the US housing market now has reached our economy.

When this all started I read that there are estimated 700 billion Dollars in risky US housing credits. Up to now the german government has put up a 400 billion Dollar credit plan to save the banks and the german companies have lost over 300 billion in market value. And this is germany alone. A sensible US government could have avoided this by buying the foreclosed houses at a reduced rate thus stabilizing the housing market. German law has put a lot of restraints on foreclosure sales because here it is realized that the housing market is the foundation of the market.

[The Game Guy]

B]A trained monkey could do the job better than Bush.Thank God we got someone a lot better than a trained monkey, a McCain victory would not have done as much good for our national image[/B]

Quoted and bolded because it is worth repeating. Skeloric speaks the truth.

[The Game Guy]

For those that care and live in the United States. Let us hope our next president does a better job with our country than the last one did.

Magman, I think that Obama will do a good job. He is very smart and he will surround himself with smart people who will help him turn things around.

I voted for Obama because I thought he was a better choice then McCain. History was made yesterday and I can say with pride I was part of it.

[skeloric]

THE ONION had a lot to say on the matter.
#1 (http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/black_man_given_nations)
#2 (http://www.theonion.com/content/news/nation_finally_****ty_enough_to)
#3 (http://www.theonion.com/content/news/struggling_americans_forced_to)

The Onion is halfway respectably serious in their satire in these essays rather than the usual cheap lowbrow crudities they pass off as gags typically.

[hellsreach]

I am uneasy because there is such great pressure on President Obama to meet the great expectations upon him and he takes the high office at possibly the worst possible time imaginable. He has far more pressure on him that almost any other President in since perhaps FDR. History is likely to remember him as one of the worst, or one of the best Presidents ever to take office. What I can say is, I've never been so filled with hope than I am right now. Despite being a Libertarian, I've long supported Obama for his stong ethics, his honesty and forthrightness. I could not image another four years of a Republican government that has completely abandoned it original foundation of fiscal responsibility and small government, replaced with conservation Christian fundamentalism and moral coersion that borders on Theocracy.

Although I am economically conservative, I also acknowledge that this is an extraordonary time that calls an extra bit of shoring on the foundation of our economy and I'm also encouraged to remember that it was under Bill Clinton, another Democrat, that the US had enjoyed the only budget surplus and the greatest level of fiscal responsibility in decades. For all the Republicans claims of small government and lower spending, they have, in my entire lifetime, only managed to increase the national debt.

Unless Obama is a closet D6 fan (playing Star Wars while at Harvard Law perhaps), I doubt he'll read this, but Thanks, Mr. President, for allowing me to believe in our government, the people, and a possibility of a bright future again.

[skeloric]

i too have watched the party drift so far from their original purpose that lifetime Republicans like Colin Powell and others were all jumping in to endorse Obama.
Including Ronald Reagan's son -- though I do not believe he is a Republican, rather instead only the prominent son of one.

EDIT: Of course as a lifelong Democrat, I hope we are seeing the death throes of the once great party that brought us Lincoln and JFK, neither of whom would recognize the current form of their party.
It is only a dessicated corpse of its prior self and something new needs to take its place.

[Jamfke]

Like a galactic EMPIRE!


























No, wait!

[hellsreach]

i too have watched the party drift so far from their original purpose that lifetime Republicans like Colin Powell and others were all jumping in to endorse Obama.
Including Ronald Reagan's son -- though I do not believe he is a Republican, rather instead only the prominent son of one.

EDIT: Of course as a lifelong Democrat, I hope we are seeing the death throes of the once great party that brought us Lincoln and JFK, neither of whom would recognize the current form of their party.
It is only a dessicated corpse of its prior self and something new needs to take its place.

To be fair, Lincoln wouldn't recognize the Rebulican Party because it and the Democratic Party were fairly opposite back in those days. At that time, the Democrats were quite right wing (tended toward anti-federalism, small governement, segragationists) and the Republicans were fairly left wing (greater federal powers, increase civil spending, anti-slavery/reconstructists).
It wasn't until the early 20th century that things began to shift. The Democrats, especially with FDR, started pushing greater economic reforms and improved civil rights for minorities and the Republicans began to "redefine" Federalism to mean the opposite of what it once meant in favor of State determinism, and the long standing belief that the government should defend "moral correctness" began moving away from general "human rights," to a more rigid and focused morality as deeply influenced by Conservative Christian society.

And JFK was a Democrat, not a Republican.

[pathfinderap]

History was made yesterday

Very true, I was up in the wee small hours over here watching this unfold live

[skeloric]

To be fair, Lincoln wouldn't recognize the Rebulican Party because it and the Democratic Party were fairly opposite back in those days. At that time, the Democrats were quite right wing (tended toward anti-federalism, small governement, segragationists) and the Republicans were fairly left wing (greater federal powers, increase civil spending, anti-slavery/reconstructists).
It wasn't until the early 20th century that things began to shift. The Democrats, especially with FDR, started pushing greater economic reforms and improved civil rights for minorities and the Republicans began to "redefine" Federalism to mean the opposite of what it once meant in favor of State determinism, and the long standing belief that the government should defend "moral correctness" began moving away from general "human rights," to a more rigid and focused morality as deeply influenced by Conservative Christian society.

Yeah, the inversion weirds me out.



And JFK was a Democrat, not a Republican.
Was he?
Dang. I had read that he was Republican. :eek: I think the text I read lied to me.
Even so, I doubt he'd recognize the Republicans of today as having much in common with the ones of his day.
Something WEIRD happened in the late 70s to the Republican party.

[hellsreach]

Within every party there are very distinct sects which come a go from power. If fact, liberals are almost synonimous with Democrats these days, and that is certainly the most powerful sect within the party, but they are just one. Similarly, there are many sects within the Republical party. Bush's Neo-Cons, are those that seem to hold the keys right now, but that is not really the case -- or at least the NeoCons are not what they were established on (which were actually Social Democrats which moved right in response to real socialists and communist influence in the Democratic Party). More and more they are getting huge influence from the religious right -- which was traditionally the domain of the PaleoCons. It is fair to say that if NeoCons were what they were founded to be (Social Democrates/Economically Conservative) I might still be a Republican -- or at least would tend to vote that way. Of course, there would still be the fact that I have a non-interventionist approach to world politics -- especially with regard to military action, and that is of course a MAJOR difference I'd have with even traditional NeoCons. Not now though. Not only do the NeoCons still hold their original views of interventionist world policy and proactive use of military might to "defend democracy," but they have all but abandoned fiscal responsibility and certainly have abandoned social democracy.

In a way, I think much of the current party is in it death-throws. Much of the huge focus of power of the Republicans was anti-communism and the proactive defence of Democracy throughout the world. With the fall of communism, I think a lot of NeoCons were left out of a job and are looking for outside conflict where there might not be one, which is why I think the 9/11 attacks were almost a good thing for the party. While I'm sure that no a single one wanted it to happy, it certainly did give them a new enemy to focus on.

While radical social convervatives (Christian Fundementalists) have a firm foothold in Republican politics, they are easily identified as radicals and could almost certainly not reach many positions of power -- especially the presidency -- if they didn't ride on the coatheels of the more mainstream concerns of economic conservativism and national defence.

It might seem strange to think of, but I can actually envision the Republican Party as it exists right now dropping away into obsurity, or be gone all together. Factions of the religious right putting more of a focus on parties that were established on theocratic platforms (like the Constitution Party). I can see many centric Republicans and traditional NeoCons mellowing their views on world politics and going over to the Libertarian Party. Likewise, the Democrats may, in response to the vacuum of power, shift more left (towards Socialism). That may cause more centric Democrats, such as Social Libertarians to they, themselves jump ship to the Libertarian Party. Obviously, my bias is showing through, but I can foresee our 2-party system being Democrats on the left and Libertarians on the Right in the next 50 years. However, a lot of Christians, especially urban Christians, have firm roots in the Democrat Party and in response to Libertarian views of strict social libertarianism, I can seem the Democratic Party in my imagine future pushing of more socially conservative. Not as conservative as we are now (much sometime borders on puritanical) -- but perhaps more to the European levels of social conservativism. This also, in many cases parities European Socialism.

Well, that is my prediction anyway.

[hellsreach]

Was he?
Dang. I had read that he was Republican. :eek: I think the text I read lied to me.
Even so, I doubt he'd recognize the Republicans of today as having much in common with the ones of his day.
Something WEIRD happened in the late 70s to the Republican party.

Yeah, the Kennedy's were Democrat, nearly to a man. The only exception that I can think of off the top of my head may be Maria Shriver who I think may be a Republican (being married to Arnold Schwartzenegger) -- of course, it wouldn't be the first time spouses had different political views, that that might certainly be the case since she endorsed Barack Obama (while Arnold endosed McCain).

[Lee Torres]

After eight long years led by the input of "Think-Tanks" like William Kristol's Project for the New American Century (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Project_for_the_New_American_Centu ry) and leadership by fear and bullying, I hope that Obama's stunning victory will bring about the end of the NeoCon Theocratic "W" Red-State breed.

Even with President-Elect Barack Obama in the wings, that may be too much to hope for - but that's what the audacity of hope is all about, right?

And the Governator's wife Maria is indeed a Democrat. Don't know why she married Ah-nuld, but, well, at least she's got some common sense, politically. I think Arnold shot himself in the foot with his support of McCain over the last few weeks... I hope he's not counting on getting re-elected too much.

[hellsreach]

After eight long years led by the input of "Think-Tanks" like William Kristol's Project for the New American Century (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Project_for_the_New_American_Centu ry) and leadership by fear and bullying, I hope that Obama's stunning victory will bring about the end of the NeoCon Theocratic "W" Red-State breed.

Even with President-Elect Barack Obama in the wings, that may be too much to hope for - but that's what the audacity of hope is all about, right?

And the Governator's wife Maria is indeed a Democrat. Don't know why she married Ah-nuld, but, well, at least she's got some common sense, politically. I think Arnold shot himself in the foot with his support of McCain over the last few weeks... I hope he's not counting on getting re-elected too much.


I think the NeoCons are in for a major facelift. My hope is that they tone down there militaristic focus and return to their more socially liberal roots, but I really doubt that is going to happen. More probably, they'll weaken and another conservative caucus will take charge. Sadly, with Palin looking to the White House in 2012, I fear it might be a more overt Dominionist sect. Sadly, if Palin or some other Dominionist puppet lands in office, I fear I'm gonna have to defect to some other country.

[Lee Torres]

If Palin becomes President some dark November day in the future, I'll be right behind you heading to a more reasonable country, with my family in tow.

In keeping with the theme of this thread, though, I hope that after seeing the leadership of President Obama, that the people that have supported the NeoCons in the past will realize what America can be, if hope and reason and freedom are allowed to flourish.

[Cryonic]

Yeah, the Kennedy's were Democrat, nearly to a man. The only exception that I can think of off the top of my head may be Maria Shriver who I think may be a Republican (being married to Arnold Schwarzenegger) -- of course, it wouldn't be the first time spouses had different political views, that that might certainly be the case since she endorsed Barack Obama (while Arnold endorsed McCain).

Shriver is not a Republican. She is a Democrat.

[hellsreach]

Shriver is not a Republican. She is a Democrat.

I wasn't sure since her husband is a Republican, I merely took a guess (but left myself some wiggle room). As well, Lee Torres already pointed out my incorrect assumption.

[Whill]

For those that care and live in the United States. Let us hope our next president does a better job with our country than the last one did.

I thought talking about politics and religion were no-no's on public forums not dedicated to those subjects. I peronally don't have a problem with it, because I can read everyone else and selectively limit my responses to not "stir up the bees nest" too much.

Thankfully, it seems like I am in agreement with most of the people on here anyway. My wife and I both voted for Obama for all the same reasons hellsreach and others stated, and more.

Despite my strong sense of right and wrong, I hate politics. However, I feel it is my moral and civic duty to participate in what little democracy we have, so I educate myself and vote for everything, as painful as the process may be to me.

I am an Independent and claim no allegience to any party. I am for more democracy. This 2-party system is only a little more democratic than a one-party system. A 3-party system is more democratic, a 4-party system even more, and so one. And the most democratic "party" system is a no-party system. Imagine if it was just a bunch of candidates with no party backing them, and you just had to vote on them based on their merits alone.

In general, I am very much in support of so-called 3rd parties (including the Libertarians) to eventually transform our 2-party model. I used to vote for independants and 3rd party candidates that I liked all the time. It may be considered "throwing your vote away" now, but the higher percetage of votes they get, the more and more the 2 parties will have to pay more attention to them, and that will hopefully lead to the eventual de-polorization of our political system. But that is me thinking way down the road. Voting now to help bring about far off in the future changes. I'm an idealist, and that's why I hate politics so much. The system is so incredibly far off from my ideals for it.

I used to say I was a moderate. I still feel that a lot of the answers to issues are not on either extreme, but closer to the middle. But now, despite my non-allegiance to the Democratic Party, I whole-heartedly claim to be a liberal, overall.

Who is my # 1 inspiration for becoming a liberal? George W. Bush. To heavily sugar-coat it, let's just say I am... not a big fan of the current president.

The last election, I knew that I couldn't "throw my vote away" to inch the 3rd party votes up by a millionth of a %. We needed change now, and bad. I voted for Kerry, the only candidate that could possibly defeat Bush. I actively campaigned for Kerry, pissing off a couple family memebers and losing a couple friends over it (only because we even discuss politics at all, not because any of us were antagonistic about it). I was extremely depressed by the outcome.

But I didn't feel as drastic about this election, because anyone, even Mickey Mouse, would be better than Bush. So this time I only discussed my election choices with my wife and a few close friends who also supported Obama. I think McCain would have been better than Bush, but McCain would be not far enough away from Bush.

We now need to try to repair all the damage done to our country and to the world. We need a drastically different approach to the war on terror and many other things. Yes, despite my political idealisms and extreme disgust with all the many corruptions in the system, I still somehow have hope for the future and Obama's role in it. I pray for him, America, and the world. Amen.

[Lee Torres]

We now need to try to repair all the damage done to our country and to the world. We need a drastically different approach to the war on terror and many other things. Yes, despite my political idealisms and extreme disgust with all the many corruptions in the system, I still somehow have hope for the future and Obama's role in it. I pray for him, America, and the world. Amen.

Amen!

Maybe actually, y'know, fighting the terrorists would have been a good strategy for the War On Terra... Terror, sorry.

The PNAC was gunning for Iraq since before George W. Bush got elected - they abused their power for an agenda of "Regime Change" and now America must deal with a conclusion to that horrific bloody quagmire while W. retires to Crawford, Texas and hires a ghost-writer to produce his memoirs, or arrange lecture tours for February 2009...

Time to repair this fragile blue world and move into the future.

[The Game Guy]

Sadly, if Palin or some other Dominionist puppet lands in office, I fear I'm gonna have to defect to some other country.

I am heading to Canada is that happens. I had considered going to canada if McCain had won this election.

Luck for me I hadn't started packing yet and I havent renewed my passport yet so I am glad Obama won.

[Rerun941]

Have fun up north, I hear it's cold...

In the spirit of dissenting opinions, I offer the following...

http://patriotpost.us/

[Stormchild]

Obama has already stated he isn't able to walk on water. He knows that expectations are much greater than any person can fulfill. My expectations are simple, he has to do better than his predecessor. This is easy. Simply not being Bush will help win back trust in the world, America has lost. In this regard his job is easy.

But on the other hand he has to face a huge deficit, two wars that don't look too good (though there are less suicide bombings in Irak, this is still far from over), a collapsed housing market that is taking the economy with it, a big unemployment rate, mistrust and hate against the US all over the world, rising economy powers like China and Russia, not to forget all those problems that haven't been tackled for years. And now he has to watch powerless two months what mistakes Bush is able to make. I keep my fingers crossed for him.

[Grimace]

Well, for what it's worth, I usually vote fairly heavily Republican. Though I'm more of a "what does the candidate offer" person rather than a political party type person. But one thing was evidently certain for me. My vote changed from McCain to Obama the moment he announced Palin as his running mate. I came from Alaska...I know all the shifty things she's done. I don't like her one bit!

But, thankfully, that's all done now.

[Lee Torres]

(raises a toast to Grimace)

To the Undiscovered Country...

[pathfinderap]

(raises a toast to Grimace)

To the Undiscovered Country...

Man I soo hope you're not talking about the film. LOL


(I jest)

[The Game Guy]

Have fun up north, I hear it's cold...

In the spirit of dissenting opinions, I offer the following...

http://patriotpost.us/

Well since McCain didnt win I dont have to move. And I have been to canada before. It is a very pretty country.

[imported_Magman]

Canada has got like a 10 year waiting list to become a citizen. A lot of americas feel the grass is greener on the other side I guess.

[Whill]

If you didn't move to Canada during Bush, than how much worse could it get? The only way it could get worse is if the Senate votes emergency powers to be granted to the Supreme Chanc... I mean President Bush, and he stays in power longer than his two terms. :cool:

I live in Ohio and I already hate Winter as it is. I can't imagine moving even more north.

[hellsreach]

It could be worse that an idiot conservative that is an puppet to Christian fundementalists and oil tycoons.

You could have an idiot conservation that is not only a puppet to the Dominionists, and also a strong believer in their Apocolyptic vision (i.e. Palin) to bring about the "return of Jesus" by instituting the Christian Rule of Law.

Wow... my conspiracy theories are getting better. Some day I might be nearly as good as Skel.

[Whill]

OK, well I'm scared now.

[Rerun941]

It could be worse that an idiot conservative that is an puppet to Christian fundementalists and oil tycoons.

You could have an idiot conservation that is not only a puppet to the Dominionists, and also a strong believer in their Apocolyptic vision (i.e. Palin) to bring about the "return of Jesus" by instituting the Christian Rule of Law.

Wow... my conspiracy theories are getting better. Some day I might be nearly as good as Skel.

Have you been re-reading the Paranoia backstock again? :)

[skeloric]

It could be worse that an idiot conservative that is an puppet to Christian fundementalists and oil tycoons.

You could have an idiot conservation that is not only a puppet to the Dominionists, and also a strong believer in their Apocolyptic vision (i.e. Palin) to bring about the "return of Jesus" by instituting the Christian Rule of Law.

Wow... my conspiracy theories are getting better. Some day I might be nearly as good as Skel.
I can't find a conspiracy in any of that.
It just sounds like what one hears on the news like CNN or FOX -- though FOX will try to tell you how wonderful such a regime would be.

[The Game Guy]

Due to the new policy in the Forum Rules (User Guidelines) and after the morderators and I discussed it backstage Political discussions are no longer allowed (due to the flamewars they can cause).

I am closing this thread.