Psionic Modifiers for Realities introduced after Space Gods

[GreenDragon]

I know Infiniverse covered Magna Verita, Aztec Empire, Land Below, and Tharkold. But that still leaves a handful of other realities unaccounted for. Granted It would be easy to just say no Ravagons have Psionics so Tz'Ravok doesn't need a Psionics Modifier. But what if a Psionicist is transformed to Atlantean reality?
Is there a system for determining the modifiers? i.e. would the Reconnection Link formula be usable to determine Psi mods (comparing the realities axioms to the minimum requirements for Psi)?
Failing that, does anyone know if there were official modifiers, or has anyone made modifiers for: Atlantis, Avalon, Kantovia, Lerholm, Olympus, Tz'Ravok, and Terra?
Thanks for any assistance.

[GreenDragon]

Wow. At DN+13, plus a contradiction check, those Tharkoldu Grid Psis and Inquisitors aren't going to be succeeding very often.
Thought Scan Base DN 29. That's practically a Glory action.

[skeloric]

Wow. At DN+13, plus a contradiction check, those Tharkoldu Grid Psis and Inquisitors aren't going to be succeeding very often.
Thought Scan Base DN 29. That's practically a Glory action.
Actually, I think that the Gris Psi and the Inquisitors are probably the EXCEPTION.
Everyone else gets that DN+13 plus Contra check.

[GreenDragon]

That would be about the only way to make them useful.

[Apieros]

Is there a system for determining the modifiers? According to Infiniverse 19, the formula is somewhat convoluted.

To determine the modifier for a character from reality Alpha:

1. Start with the Difficulty Number for an Akashan to reconnect while in reality Alpha.

Example: For Core Earth this is 11, Nippon Tech this is 10.

2. Using the "Difficulty Number Scale" on page 42 of the Torg Rulebook, read the number from step 1 as a modifier.

Example: A 10 is a +2, a 12 a +4.

3. Adjust this number up or down, based on the axiom requirements of Psionics itself (Social 21, Spirit 9, Tech 15) and the axioms of Reality Alpha.

Example 1: Core Earth's 11 is part way between a +2 and +4. Since Core Earth meets all the axiom requirements for Psi, the appropriate modifier is +2.

Example 2: Nippon Tech's 10 would normally be a +2. But since its Spirit Axiom is too low to support psionics, it's bumped up one step to +4.

So, to calculate the modifiers for the missing realities, you'd need to start with the Reconnection DN's for an Akashan Character in:

Atlantis (6), Avalon (12), Tz'Ravok (20), Terra (12), Kantovia, Lereholm, Olympus, Gehenna, Pulse, Arachnidia, Cartoon Cosm

Then go from there.

Note: The official reco DN for the listed realities is given in parentheses. So far as I can determine, there are no official reconnection DN's for many of the official realities, including the ones I omitted. I've looked in IU#3, Infiniverse, the SKG, and HLG and simply can't find them. This is irritating, to me. I'll explain why in another post.

Note II: I find the issue of a Psi Use DN Modifier to be metaphysically suspect in at least two ways. First, no other tool set has such a modifier, including Magic, Miracles, Weird Science, or Martial Arts. Why should Psi?

Second, the means to calculate the number, given above, is questionable at best. The Reco DN? Which may or may not be based on any appropriate axiom, and is highly misleading in most cases (like Nippon Tech). Surely, if we had to have some DN modifier (which also increases Feedback, psi's "Backlash") it could have been calculated in some more reasonable fashion.

[GreenDragon]

Gehenna and Arachnidia would both use the Land Below Reco DN. For the others (excluding the Cartoon Cosm, and Pulse), I have calculated the DNs using the Link DN formula:


Link Difficulty Chart
Character is From: Character is in:
|AT AV AY AZ CP CE KA GO LB LE LL MV NE NT NO OL OR SG TE TH TZ
Atlantis (AT) | 0 11 12 3 12 13 11 16 8 17 12 7 14 14 13 10 13 8 8 14 11
Avalon (AV) | 7 0 8 11 13 12 19 16 3 14 8 10 12 12 18 10 11 16 10 13 8
Aysle (AY) | 7 6 0 7 7 14 20 15 13 16 20 11 8 17 16 12 6 13 10 8 14
Aztec Empire (AZ) | 6 7 7 0 12 10 14 13 3 17 9 11 8 11 17 13 7 16 8 12 3
Cyberpapacy (CP) | 3 10 12 8 0 9 10 23 17 24 21 13 8 12 15 17 9 7 12 3 16
Earth (CE) | 8 12 11 11 6 0 8 21 15 21 18 12 6 8 12 15 8 3 6 4 14
Kadandra (KA) |16 15 13 16 9 6 0 23 18 23 21 14 8 7 10 16 9 3 8 8 14
Kantovia (GO) | 8 3 5 2 7 11 15 0 4 8 12 4 4 11 17 7 4 12 11 4 7
Land Below (LB) |12 10 4 14 7 11 14 10 0* 11 15 5 3 12 16 6 3 17 6 3 8
Lereholm (LE) | 4 3 3 3 4 8 12 4 3 0 12 4 8 12 12 3 3 8 7 3 7
Living Land (LL) |15 19 10 17 12 16 19 10 9 15 0 9 9 16 23 12 9 12 9 9 10
Magna Verita (MV) | 8 4 7 3 3 10 14 13 8 14 13 0 3 12 16 8 3 13 10 3 7
Nile Empire (NE) | 3 8 10 5 8 11 14 19 14 20 16 11 0 12 17 13 5 8 3 3 13
Nippon-Tech (NT) |11 16 11 14 7 5 6 22 16 22 19 12 7 0 11 16 8 3 9 5 15
Nolava (NO) |12 11 6 8 11 12 13 19 14 19 20 12 8 15 0 13 7 12 9 8 14
Olympus (OL) | 8 3 3 4 9 10 15 11 8 12 17 8 6 15 14 0 3 11 8 6 10
Orrorsh (OR) | 3 6 8 3 8 11 15 17 15 18 17 11 6 15 17 13 0 11 8 6 12
Space Gods (SG) |18 12 16 10 12 11 9 27 22 27 25 16 12 10 12 20 13 0 12 10 20
Terra (TE) | 8 10 10 8 10 7 12 19 6 18 9 12 3 9 18 13 9 12 0 13 9
Tharkold (TH) | 3 8 14 5 6 12 14 24 17 25 21 14 8 14 18 17 9 8 14 0 17
Tz'Ravok (TZ) |10 13 6 11 7 10 14 14 12 15 15 8 3 12 16 12 3 8 8 3 0
* 0 in native region, 3 in any other domed world.edit: worth noting, Akashans in Atlantis should be DN 18 to reco.

There are a few realities with new or altered axioms:

Cosm Magic Social Spirit. Tech.
Kadandra 2 25 5 26
Magna Verita 10 13 17 15
Nolava 18 19(13) 1 21
I've also bumped all Earth axioms by 1pt, and the NT tech by 1. Kadandra uses the axioms/laws developed by Apeiros iirc, Nolava is simply a renamed Marl (Bloodshadows).

If I am understanding the formula correctly, the missing numbers are:
Atlantis +12, Avalon +6, Kadandra +3, Kantovia and Lereholm +19, Nolava and Terra +6, Olympus and Tz'Ravok +14.
And I discovered while doing the calculations, that I was actually looking at that very page when I was starting this search the other night. If I would have read further, I would have had my own answer. :o Thanks.

[Apieros]

edit: worth noting, Akashans in Atlantis should be DN 18 to reco.I was reading off the chart in Infiniverse... is this an editorial error?

[GreenDragon]

It appears to be. Highest differing Axiom is Social (27-10=17), Tech is also higher (17+1=18), number is >15 so no "fudge factor." Final total is 18. Which on the chart is the Atlantis in Space Gods DN. Coincidentally, that number should be: Spirit (13-8=5), plus Magic (5+1=6), plus "fudge factor" (6 to 10 = +2; 6+2=8). So if the FF is ignored, the two numbers are reversed. I'm correcting my chart above to reflect this.

[skeloric]

It appears to be. Highest differing Axiom is Social (27-10=17), Tech is also higher (17+1=18), number is >15 so no "fudge factor." Final total is 18. Which on the chart is the Atlantis in Space Gods DN. Coincidentally, that number should be: Spirit (13-8=5), plus Magic (5+1=6), plus "fudge factor" (6 to 10 = +2; 6+2=8). So if the FF is ignored, the two numbers are reversed. I'm correcting my chart above to reflect this.
We really need a proper "FAQ/Errata" archive.
I know about the need to correct this at this moment but what about a year from now?
Having a permanent record somewhere would be nice, especially as any new English version of TORG is likely one or more decades away as of yet.

[Whill]

We really need a proper "FAQ/Errata" archive.
I know about the need to correct this at this moment but what about a year from now?
Having a permanent record somewhere would be nice, especially as any new English version of TORG is likely one or more decades away as of yet.

It's not much, but if you would like to create an dedicated "FAQ/Errata" archive thread, I'd be happy to sticky it at the top of the TORG forum. Perhaps you could discuss the issues like you normally do, and once confirmation/consensus is reached, then post a reply in the "FAQ/Errata" archive thread. The first post could be an introduction post, and then the 2nd can be the FAQ, and then each Errata could be posted afterwards. And each of you can edit your own posts if you need to later.

Just throwing the idea out there. If you think that would help, just start the official thread and I'll sticky it.

[GreenDragon]

Sounds like a good idea.

And trust me, as often as I am consulting the rulebooks (between 2 ongoing TORG games, and using Masterbook for a Fantasy setting, Star Wars, Star Trek, and a Superhero game) If its broke, or can be broken I - or my players - find it.

[Whill]

2 ongoing TORG games, and using Masterbook for a Fantasy setting, Star Wars, Star Trek, and a Superhero game

Wow Dragon! At the height of my time devoted to roleplaying (my senior year in high school), I was only running 3 Star Wars campaigns. You are the superhero of roleplayers!


Sounds like a good idea.

And trust me, as often as I am consulting the rulebooks... If its broke, or can be broken I - or my players - find it.

OK, go ahead and create the new "official" TORG FAQ/Errata archive thread's introductory post (I suggest with the guidelines for posting replies there). I'll watch for it and when I see it I'll sticky it to the top of the TORG forum. Thanks.

[GreenDragon]

Its not as impressive as it sounds. I'm only running one or two games/week. But I alternate around a lot.

[Kansas Jim]

According to Infiniverse 19, the formula is somewhat convoluted.

Boy, that is convoluted. Do the numbers actually match up? I find it hard to believe that the same people who made up whatever numbers 'felt right' for almost everything else would actually stick to using a formula that complicated.