Knockback rules

[Andrew]

Has anyone seen any knockback rules for D6? One of my favorite things in RuneQuest for controlling combat. I also would use it to "dispose" of characters instead of killig them. So when the big bad guy goes after the mage, instead of death blow I send him across the room into the wall for stun damage.

I search the Fantast, Adventure and SWRPG pdfs and didn't find anything.

The basic rules in RQ were: For every 5 points the damage exceeded the resistance (in RQ armor) then the target was knocked back 1 meter. The attacker could choose knockback instead of damage as a combat option. Also the rule existed for knockback into solid objects which would do stun damage.

Anyone recall anything like this from D6 or see why it wouldn't work?

[Bren]

Seems like knockback would be an effect of physical melee weapons. Guns and blasters can't generate that kind of force, Newton's Third Law and all (except in movies using wire and harness pull back techniques). But I can definitely see someone bashed by a Gamorrean getting thrown backwards. I've been tinkering with changing brawling type damage to lessen the killing effect. As it stands in the SWRPG RAW a bar fight with high STR characters is not a friendly bar fight, but a deadly bar fight. Shifting the damage away from wounds and towards stun seems like a good compromise.

[Flagwaver]

Actually, I've seen the effects of a .44 Magnum on a person in Iraq... dude went flying backward. He was wearing body armor, so the round didn't penetrate, but it is a large piece of metal that has a lot of kinetic energy. In my SWD6 game, I actually use a modified knockback rule. If you roll a Critical Success on damage, then the target is knocked backwards a meter for every time you roll a 6 (roll a Crit Success and another 6, then the target bets knocked back two meters).

[GamerDude]

Seems like knockback would be an effect of physical melee weapons. Guns and blasters can't generate that kind of force, Newton's Third Law and all (except in movies using wire and harness pull back techniques). But I can definitely see someone bashed by a Gamorrean getting thrown backwards. Yes Hollywood (and film/tv in general) has really done gaming wrong with how they portray the ability of weapons to "knockback" someone. A hammer or other similar weapon yeah, that's a lot of force over a flat area... gonna transfer plenty to you. A fist the same though not nearly as much. Sword? It's just going to slice and pierce you. Arrow? Pin you to that wall only because you were backed up against it.

In the late 90's I got into GURPS, joined the big Gurps Yahoo Group, just in time for their big argument on different guns what loads could they handle and the "blowback" factor of each (yea blowback was knockback for them). They didn't want to hear how bullets do way more "ripping and tearing" than "pushing and shoving". I will say this though, if you are wearing some form of body armor that could prevent the round from going into/through you, that's a scenario for the kinetic energy to be transferred to the target. Most likely resulting in major bruising, broken bones, being knocked on your butt, but not going too far.

Mmmm I wonder where I can get some body armor and a village idiot, I smell an experiment in the making. :cool:

[Bren]

Well he didn't go flying backward from kinetic energy. Otherwise the shooter would also go flying backwards. Action, reaction, Newtons Third Law...

[Andrew]

Well he didn't go flying backward from kinetic energy. Otherwise the shooter would also go flying backwards. Action, reaction, Newtons Third Law...

In ideal situations that is absolutely true. However, from my sparring experience it usually comes down to the defender is just knocked off balance and more stumbles than is knocked back. So some movies shots aren't too bad, but the ones where people get picked off their feet are obviously stretching it. Unless the bad guys have brought a cave troll.

What I'm gathering from the responses is that there isn't anything like this in some D6 rules anywhere, but also the numbers I suggested don't seem unreasonable.

[Bren]

I've seen knockback in systems like Runequest and Pendragon that had a Size stat. So damage that exceeded size, even if it didn't penetrate armor, caused knowback. But in those systems size for humans was around 2D6+6 and armor often ran in the range of 6-12 points. Hit points were in a similar range to size. So you could pretty easily exceed size without killing anyone.

In Star Wars STR is hit points, more or less. In most D6 body or wound levels is pretty closely tied to STR or some stat, so you will need to do something (like treat some kinds of damage as stun rather than killing) to have knockback be anything other than "his lifeless body flies backwards, impacting the wall before sliding slowly to the floor."

But a mechanism to knockback could be cool.

[Jerry D. Grayson]

There are rules for it in D6 Powers

Its doesn’t use Newtons third law but Fig Newtons law.


They aren’t realistic at all which is a plus when you’re fighting giants or things that can shoot heat vision.

[Grimace]

Actually, I've seen the effects of a .44 Magnum on a person in Iraq... dude went flying backward. He was wearing body armor, so the round didn't penetrate, but it is a large piece of metal that has a lot of kinetic energy. In my SWD6 game, I actually use a modified knockback rule. If you roll a Critical Success on damage, then the target is knocked backwards a meter for every time you roll a 6 (roll a Crit Success and another 6, then the target bets knocked back two meters).

That is such a simple and elegant way to work it..... I like it!

[GamerDude]

yes works nicely and, the smaller weapons won't be really able to do it.