Fantasy Flight Games to Publish Star Wars Card, RPG, and Miniature Games

[Whill]

Here is the official announcement from StarWars.com: http://www.starwars.com/games/othergames/fantasyflight_starwars/index.html

Let's hope and pray they use Open D6 for the RPG game engine! Should we start a petition or organize a movement?


http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/

[Bren]

Interesting. So who are FFG?

[Whill]

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/

Interesting. So who are FFG?

FFG is a game company. Here is a list of their RPGs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_Flight_Games#Role_playing_games).

[Flagwaver]

Their RPGs aren't very well received. Their only true claim to RPG fame is buying out Warhammer. And that's about it.

[Whill]

If they used D6 I'll bet it would be better received. With D6 open and FFG having the license to use the Star Wars IP, they could regurgitate WEG Star Wars and it would sell itself.

I have the FFG's entire line of Dragonstar books. For D&D Space Fantasy, it's not too bad.

[barrataria]

FFG's first two Star Wars game lines will be the X-Wing miniatures game and Star Wars: The Card Game, both scheduled to launch in early 2012.

Doesn't seem like an RPG is on the radar for the near term.

[Infinite Possibilities]

With D6 open and FFG having the license to use the Star Wars IP, they could regurgitate WEG Star Wars and it would sell itself.

I wonder if Lucas Arts would even allow their property to be used with an open system. Most big companies like that tend to get nervous if one error could open up their IP to the world. If they do use D6, my guess is FFG would have to go through Eric to get a license to use the D6 System, rather than OpenD6.

Darren

[Whill]

I wonder if Lucas Arts would even allow their property to be used with an open system. Most big companies like that tend to get nervous if one error could open up their IP to the world.

Perhaps. That seems like a possible concern for Lucas Inc.


Doesn't seem like an RPG is on the radar for the near term.

True, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss it now.

[Flagwaver]

Most of their stuff uses d10s. Not even like WOD, but the percentile system.

[Lee Torres]

They did the board game Arkham Horror, which is very innovative and cool, and also Grimm, which uses the Linear D6 system explained here: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/grimm/media/lineard6.pdf and here for character archetypes: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/grimm/media/Grimm_SampleChapter.pdf. They have done some really good things in the past, and I doubt they'll screw this up - it's too expensive a license to risk screwing up. I think we're in for an awesome game. I hope so, anyway.

[Lubidius]

Their board games are top notch. Arkham Horror is one of the best games ever produced. Now RPG, I have no idea how they'll do with that. Hopefully they match up their existing production quality with some folks that know the RPG market and in particular, know the history of the WEG D6 Star Wars RPG and it's iterations.

[Kansas Jim]

I'm curious about the approach they'll take with the RPG, if they'll go the route they've used for titles like Anima (a traditional core rulebook) or the way they went with Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (a boxed set with multiple books, cards, tokens and customized dice).

[TinMan]

Anybody have any idea how hard it would be for them to get the rights to update/reprint the old Star Wars D6 supplements under their banner? The system is Open true but in our wildest dreams can we realistically hope they could pull off a resurrection of SW D6?

It would be very VERY awesome if they could do it and do it in a way that they will still make money of course.

[Infinite Possibilities]

Depends. I don't think Lucas Arts would allow it to be done under an open license. Just too scary on their side i would imagine, I know I wouldn't allow it if I were them.

To get access to the D6 System would require the OK from Eric. Not sure if they could afford that and still make the game profitable for FFG. There also comes into consideration, what if Eric sells the system to someone else, or all of a sudden decides he wants more money for the license, or changes his mind for some other reason.

I think in the end, the most likely result, is that they use there own system, or create a new one for it. Though I suppose they might also consider buying the D6 system from Eric. If they can afford the license, they might be able to also afford buying the system.

Darren

[Lubidius]

I would have to imagine they'd go this route too - "I think in the end, the most likely result, is that they use there own system, or create a new one for it." Which may not be a bad idea. Falling back to D6 may feel (to some, not to most here) like a re-hash, and a lot of people would likely want something fresh, and more directly designed for the setting. Not that Open D6 couldn't be massaged to suit those needs (proof is in the past pudding of course). Anyhow, I don't think whatever they come up with would be terribly difficult to create a conversion chart or three for. Just looking a wee bit at that Linear D6 set of links Lee T. posted a few posts back in this thread, and it seems rather similar to D6 in overall feel. I think it's a good choice in company to take on the line. They make good products, whatever they touch. It might be interesting to see what they come up with from scratch. You never know, it might be nice. Just 2 cents to the pot.

[TinMan]

It would be awesome if we got back a D6 SW, I'm not sure if any new players would really care that the "old" D6 SW stuff was re-printed. The system has been out of print for so long that most of the younger players have never even heard of D6 SW. A 3rd ed version of SW D6 would be in order of course but beyond that I think we would be good to go as long as all the re-printing legalities were in order.

As for Eric IF they approached him about buying any rights that he may still own, let's hope they offer him something reasonable and he accepts a reasonable offer.

[Havard]

Bill Slavicsek is also out of a job at the moment. FF should hire him to do D6 Star Wars, just like in the old days! :)

-Havard

[Whill]

Yeah but he crossed over the d20 Side. Is his soul redeemable?

I joke!

[Flagwaver]

Yeah but he crossed over the d20 Side. Is his soul redeemable?As long as he didn't work on D&D 4.0 (i.e. D&D: WoW, then he might be able to be brought back from the abyss.

[Whill]

I haven't played 4.0, but I have it and it seems to be an minor improvement in at least some ways over 3/3.5 which I have played in a few campaigns of. They did make an effort to simplify the game in some ways, which does in general address one of my major complaints about d20 (unnecessary complexity).

[Havard]

Actually Bill did work on 4E, which is probably why he was fired. Some would say that he never really got what D20 was about. I think he needs to return to D6 where he was meant to be :)

[Whill]

Some would say that he never really got what D20 was about.

But he was the WotC Director of RPG R&D for so long. And he never got what d20 was about? Um, I would think that would be a major job requirement! I don't have the utmost in respect for WotC, but I have difficulty believing that the company was that incredibly misguided for so many years. I mean, WotC made a good amount of money in the last decade, didn't it? They must have been doing something right (profitable).


Actually Bill did work on 4E, which is probably why he was fired.

Is 4E really that hated among WotC/d20/D&D fans? I wouldn't think so by the massive plethra of 4E books on the market. If it was so widely despised then how could it possibly be selling enough to warrant the constant creation of new books? Some of you make it sound like WotC is blindly speeding towards bankruptcy.

[Flagwaver]

They turned it into a computer game that you play without a computer. You can "design your character" for a subscription fee, as well as use a GUI to make your character look graphically, play and create maps in 3D, and do other things like a MMO. They sold out realy D&D to the WoW crowd, no offense to Wowers.

[Jerry D. Grayson]

WOTC created an unsurpassed player infrastructure for their player base with the DDI.

I wish I had the resources or online presence they created for D&D4

I wish I could sell out to the 2mill+ WOW players, I’d be rich :)


Unfortunately I don’t think you’ll ever see a return to the D6 system for Star Wars. The game has been a non-D6 game for over 12 years now, longer than it existed at WEG.


I think the new game will take the same approach that Dr. Who, or the One Ring, or Mouse Guard did. Personally I’m hoping for a version close to Smallville or Leverage.

[Bren]

Technically WOTC published their Star Wars rules in late 2000 and announced in January 2010 that they were not renewing the license. That is a bit over 10 years of publishing.

WEG published D6 Star Wars material between 1987 and 1999. Which is about 12 years of Star Wars publishing. In 2003/2004 they released D6 Space which used very similar rules in a generic space setting. Supplements were published through 2006. So counting D6 Space WEG actively published D6 space material for some 15 years. About 50% longer than WotC/SAGA.

To summarize, Star Wars has been a published RPG for 24 years (including a roughly 1-year hiatus between WEG and WotC). WEG published Star Wars for 12 of those 24 years and additional D6 Space material for roughly 3 more years. WotC published Star Wars material for about 10 years. Currently RPG material is again on hiatus while we await the new release by FFG.

But non-technically speaking, I highly doubt that FFG will use a D6 system for both marketing and not invented here reasons - despite that fact that I, along with many others, wish that they would.

[Whill]

They turned it into a computer game that you play without a computer. You can "design your character" for a subscription fee, as well as use a GUI to make your character look graphically, play and create maps in 3D, and do other things like a MMO. They sold out realy D&D to the WoW crowd, no offense to Wowers.

I've never played an MMO or even a computer game. (Heck, even video games got too advanced for me post-Atari.) I'll take your word for the WOWization of D&D, but those computer-imaging fee-services never existed before and they are still only optional. I don't see how the mere existence of those new options have to impact the basic pen & paper table-top RPG aspects of playing the game at all. The impression I got from reading the 4E Player Handbook is that the base game can still be played without the computer stuff. I played in multiple 3E/3.5 campaigns and I felt the game system was in dire need of simplification, and 4E does that (slightly). WOW-friendly or not, 4E is still an improvement over the previous editions.


WEG published D6 Star Wars material between 1987 and 1999.

I'm pretty sure it's 1998. I think Wikipedia is wrong with the end date. Wookieepedia says 1998. I have the entire line of WEG Star Wars 2E/R&E products and I don't remember ever seeing a 1999 publication date. A minor detail, yes.


To summarize, Star Wars has been a published RPG for 24 years (including a roughly 1-year hiatus between WEG and WotC). WEG published Star Wars for 12 of those 24 years and additional D6 Space material for roughly 3 more years. WotC published Star Wars material for about 10 years.

I think that the number of years that any company has published D6 or Star Wars RPG products is completely inconsequential to whether FFC Star Wars will use the D6 or not. It is extremely unlikely, but for other reasons.

[Bren]

I'm pretty sure it's 1998. I think Wikipedia is wrong with the end date. Wookieepedia says 1998. I have the entire line of WEG Star Wars 2E/R&E products and I don't remember ever seeing a 1999 publication date.I'll accept your correction. If not the Master, you are certainly a Master of Star Wars trivia. ;) Have you suggested Wiki correct or provide a citation for their date?


I think that the number of years that any company has published D6 or Star Wars RPG products is completely inconsequential to whether FFC Star Wars will use the D6 or not. It is extremely unlikely, but for other reasons.Totally, but sadly, I agree. A new system is likely for marketing and NIH reasons.

[Havard]

But he was the WotC Director of RPG R&D for so long. And he never got what d20 was about? Um, I would think that would be a major job requirement! I don't have the utmost in respect for WotC, but I have difficulty believing that the company was that incredibly misguided for so many years. I mean, WotC made a good amount of money in the last decade, didn't it? They must have been doing something right (profitable).

I'm not saying Slavicsek is stupid. However, 4E probably represents his vision of what D&D should be, whereas 3E was something he inherited from Monte Cook, Skip Williams and crew. Not everyone agrees that 4E was the direction D&D should have headed.


Is 4E really that hated among WotC/d20/D&D fans? I wouldn't think so by the massive plethra of 4E books on the market. If it was so widely despised then how could it possibly be selling enough to warrant the constant creation of new books? Some of you make it sound like WotC is blindly speeding towards bankruptcy.

4E is doing quite well. However, it would seem that WotC are unhappy that such a large portion of their potential market went to Paizo's Pathfinder rather than to 4E. Also, the number of D&D supplements for the new edition is quite small compared to previous editions. Of late many products have been removed from their catalog. They seem to be much more oriented towards board games, their digital initiative and things that arent really directed towards the common gamer market.


-Havard

[Flagwaver]

4E is doing quite well. However, it would seem that WotC are unhappy that such a large portion of their potential market went to Paizo's Pathfinder rather than to 4E. Also, the number of D&D supplements for the new edition is quite small compared to previous editions. Of late many products have been removed from their catalog. They seem to be much more oriented towards board games, their digital initiative and things that arent really directed towards the common gamer market.
This is the thing. They were trying to get the online gamers into the mix with an easier to understand system that the online gamers were used to. You level up and have to select powers. When in combat, you use powers. Powers take some time to reset. After the battle, loot the body and get XP.

I joined some friends for D&D4e a couple of months ago, thinking that if I tried playing with a bunch of 4ers rather than 3.5ers, it would be better. Well... it didn't go over too well. It was my turn and I said that I wanted to leap into the middle of a group of four kobolds and use my Whirlwind Blade, a tactic I used quite a bit in 3.5. The DM looked at me like a dear in the headlights and asked if I has the jump attack power. I did not. He told me that the jumping skill couldn't be used in combat except to jump across pits or to grab things overhead, that I couldn't use it to vault an enemy without the jump attack power.

At another point, I waded into the thick of things (more kobolds), and was attacking normally. I wasn't using my powers because none really seemed appropriate. The other players began complaining that I wasn't playing the game right. First of all, I have literally been playing D&D longer than any of them have been alive. Second, I didn't know that you were forced to attack with your powers. Third, I was the only player in the entire game to not drop below half hit points. (I was a paladin and had healing). In all, it has again turned me off of the whole 4e system.

The 4e system was built to get online roleplayers to play the game. The traditional D&Ders have since gone to Pathfinder for, as they call it, D&D 3.75e. I mean, to use or even view any of the game supplements online, you must subscribe to the WOTC online. I swear, soon, WOTC will come out with their own MMO... D&D 4.5e.

[Whill]

I'm not saying Slavicsek is stupid. However, 4E probably represents his vision of what D&D should be, whereas 3E was something he inherited from Monte Cook, Skip Williams and crew. Not everyone agrees that 4E was the direction D&D should have headed.

What direction does everything think 4E it should have headed? Less complex than 3.5 but in different ways than it is? Just as complex but in different ways? Only a few minor revisions to 3.5? What?


Of late many products have been removed
from their catalog. They seem to be much more oriented towards board games,
their digital initiative and things that arent really directed towards the
common gamer market.

-Havard

I'm sure that is just a sign of the times. We've talked about the diminishing pen & paper table-top RPG market on this board a lot before. We may not like it, but I'm sure they are just trying to follow the money.

[Bren]

All the "traditional D&Ders" I know moved on to other systems decades ago. But then for me traditional D&D just uses three little stapled booklets and a bunch of stuff the DM makes up himself. No one ever really used the Outdoor Survival map - though I do have a copy down in the game room.

Looking at the 3.5e, 4e, and Pathfinder debates from a distance it all seems a much of a muchness.

[Whill]

I do have a copy down in the game room.

You have a "the game room"? Cool! Is that just a game library, or do you actually play games there too? I have a room that serves those purposes, but mine also has to serve several other purposes so isn't called a "game room". I call it "my secret underground lair". A friend of my wife's calls it the "Whillitorium" but most other visitors call it "Whill's man-cave". My wife just calls it 'the basement'. I'd love to have room that could be so prominently devoted to gaming that it warranted being called "the game room". I'm a bit jealous!


All the "traditional D&Ders" I know moved on to other systems decades ago. But then for me traditional D&D just uses three little stapled booklets and a bunch of stuff the DM makes up himself.

Word. I should clarify (or run into the ground) that I really only define myself as a RP gamer by being a GM. So I know a bit about D&D, but my 3.5 campaigns as a player in the first half of the last decade really don't mean much to me. I was mostly miserable the whole time. My true reasons for playing were rather insidious. My Star Wars D6 campaign was falling apart and I befriended a new group of players who I eventually began to believe that I might be able to convert them from D&D (d20) to me taking over as GM of Star Wars D6. It wasn't going well (their criticism of the prequels didn't help their interest in Star Wars), and then I met the women who would later become my wife so I just abandoned the failing mission in favor of developing my relationship with her. I guess my suffering through multiple 3.5 campaigns to no avail is Karma for even trying to convert them and take over the group. But it all turned out for the best because now I have a family who means the world to me.

I played D&D in elementary school, and co-GMed my group's house-ruled D&D/AD&D hybrid game throughout junior high. In high school, my group switched to other games (that I was almost always GM for). Then in 1987 I started designing my own fantasy world intending to return to AD&D as a GM when the Star Wars RPG (1E) rulebook and SW Sourcebook arrived at the place I worked in high school (which sold RPGs among other things). I immediately dropped my AD&D setting and campaign plans and started developing my first Star Wars campaign. I played in a few AD&D 2E adventures when it first came out, then didn't play D&D again until 3.5 as described in the previous paragraph.

I've gotten rid of most of my D&D paraphernalia but still have my original D&D Basic box set with my little stapled books, and a few of my favorite D&D books from various editions. And for some unknown reason, I bought the D&D 4E PH book with no intention to ever play the game. I've definitely left playing D&D of any form behind for good now.


Looking at the 3.5e, 4e, and Pathfinder debates from a distance it all seems a much of a muchness.

You're so right. It really is pointless to try to differentiate between the editions so I don't know why I'm even trying to understand. No matter what direction it went, 4E is still D&D which means it is still overly complicated, it is still d20, and it is still antithesis to what I stand for as a gamer. I guess I can only explain my interest in D&D as a morbid curiosity at this point. That, I like dragons, and I think the humanoid dragon species ("Dragonborn") look cool.

[Bren]

You have a "the game room"? Cool! Is that just a game library, or do you actually play games there too?We play games there. It has our old dining room set for gaming as well as bookshelves for game materials and my desk and game computer and such.

I've gotten rid of most of my D&D paraphernalia but still have my original D&D Basic box set with my little stapled books, and a few of my favorite D&D books from various editions. And for some unknown reason, I bought the D&D 4E PH book with no intention to ever play the game. I've definitely left playing D&D of any form behind for good now.Coincidentally I also retained my 1974 D&D books, but I sold off all my AD&D materials to a good home, i.e. someone who actually wanted to play AD&D.

We started playing D&D back in 1974. My friend had bought the rules for some reason and he brough his copy over one night when he was staying over at my house. I think he had already read the rules, so I speed-read the rules, then we each took a single piece of graph paper and made up a dungeon. Then we alternated turns rolling up a character and playing the DM. Thus started our original D&D group which quickly grew to about 5-6 DMs and maybe a dozen (non-DM) players. Nearly all the DMs ran separate worlds - I think two guys who were brothers may have shared a world. Some people ran in multiple worlds, some in just a single world. About 1980 or so a few of us switched to Runequest - and one DM switched to Stormbringer - and there was little looking back. I did run a short campaign using the old D&D rules for a few months back in the late 1980s. But basically I just have the old rules now as more or less a memorial to the start of RPGs.

[Whill]

There's a couple other ol' timers here too. I didn't start playing D&D until about 1980-ish, which was also my first tt p&p rpg. After D&D was banned from my elementary school, I staged my first protest by starting a chant on the monkey bars, "We want D&D! We want D&D!" over and over again during recess (to no avail).

In my junior high group, three of us took turns DMing for all the other players, and each of us played multiple PCs over the course of three years, but all the adventures took place in the same continuity of the same world. We did fit some published modules into our world but it was mostly composed of our homemade lands we GMs devised for our original adventures. The known world started small but our maps kept adding more and more on until we ended up with a massive fantasy world. By the end there were six PCs remaining who had all become uber-powerful, each rulers in three kingdoms. We started to get bored and wanted to move on to other games.

So my days as a D&D co-DM came to an end when an assasination of one of the PCs by another sparked a three-way war that was ultimately decided by a battle royal in which we played our five remaining characters in personal combat against each other and my character emerged victorious, uniting the three kingdoms into an Empire comprised of about three-fourths of the known world. All hail the glorious Emperor Flon! :cool:

Our maps, adventures and other notes were all lost to time. I think I may actually still have the basic character sheet for Flon somewhere. I'm actually still friends with the other players in that D&D group (although I'm the only uber-nerd that still roleplays). None of us can even remember the name of our fantasy world, or if we even gave it a name.

Anyway, back to the mid-80's, I became the default GM for all the other games we played until I played in an awesome Cthulhu game in 1989-90, the only full-fledged campaign I have ever been a player (only) in that I have truly enjoyed.

[Bren]

Yes, the good old days of watching the world unfold hex page by hex page.

And Cthulhu rocks!

[Whill]

Yes, the good old days of watching the world unfold hex page by hex page.

Like most of the published adventures we had, we used pages with squares, not hexagons. I think they called it "graph paper". I may even have a couple 25 year-old sheets of it somewhere.


And Cthulhu rocks!

Here is a link to a post describing my favorite campaign I have ever been a player in (of any RPG). (http://www.wegfansite.com/forum/showthread.php?548-Call-of-Cthulhu-4th-Edition-(1989)&p=6676#post6676)

[Bren]

Like most of the published adventures we had, we used pages with squares, not hexagons. I think they called it "graph paper". I may even have a couple 25 year-old sheets of it somewhere.No, no, no. Graph paper was for mapping dungeons. Hex paper was for mapping worlds.

Loved the CoC post. :cool: That game is tops for the horrific moment of realization. You and your GM did a great job. Father Jim would have fit nicely into any number of our Cthulhu campaigns which tend to run the gamut from desperate and doomed to pulp Cthulhu - but the pulp part only really applies vs. the cultists. Once the Great Old Ones and such arrive on the scene, it's best if your character is in another scene...or at least in another county.