Version numbering?

[Wester]

I was throwing together a quick guide to my in-house rules variant over the weekend when I stopped to consider, might it not be a good idea to have some sort of versioning system to refer to various incarnations of the core rules?

For example, SW 2nd Edition R&E seems to be covered under OpenD6, but it's quite a mouthful to refer to it as "the version of the core rules used in The Star Wars Roleplaying Game: Second Edition Revised & Expanded" whenever you want to mention it.

So I wondered if anyone had given thought to some sort of versioning convention, such that those game rules could be referred to more conveniently and without reference to the Star Wars property?

[Lee Torres]

Got to agree with you. We've batted this around here a long while ago, and just hit a wall where people couldn't agree, but I'd suggest:

1987 version = D6 First Edition
1992 version = D6 Second Edition
1996 version = D6 Second Edition, Revised
2005 version = D6 Third Edition

I think the Star Wars - D6 crossover was creating a possible disconnect, where people may not have wanted to consider D6 Space to be equal to their hopes for a Star Wars 3E, but I think if we just throw the licensing out altogether, I can accept the 2005 version as Third Edition.

Of course, now someone will probably advance the notion that Ghostbusters should be D6 First Edition...


So, on the outskirts of this idea, I guess Hercules & Xena was D6 Legend First Edition, and DC Universe was D6 Legend Second Edition.

[Rerun941]

Of course, now someone will probably advance the notion that Ghostbusters should be D6 First Edition...

I will! (Nah, just kidding)

Ghostbusters is/was more of a prototype of the D6 system, so I consider it "D6 - Beta Test" or "D6 - Version Zero" or maybe "D6 - v0.5"

[Lee Torres]

:)

I'd back "D6 Prologue Edition"...

D6 Prequel Edition just tears open a whole 'nother can o' worms.

[Rerun941]

Dare I ask where you'd put the Cookbook? v2.5? v2.75? Perhaps even 3rd Edition with the F/A/S books bumped up to 4th Edition?

[Lee Torres]

I'd been pondering that, actually. Based on timing, it falls into a toolbox expansion for D6 Second Edition, Revised, but even though they did turn up the same year, with all of the options, it might warrant being its own thing. Judgment call on that one; it's sort of a unique situation (since it was the first D6 System product to be actually labeled as such).

What's the consensus, D6 True Believers?

[Wester]

How about D6 Zero for Ghostbusters? That keeps with the numbering convention starting from 1st. Ed. and so forth.

I've seen numerous threads about "SW with the serial numbers filed off" but has anyone released a generic rulebook that is just that? WRT to IP issues, couldn't one simply . . . plagiarize verbatim? Minus the IP? If in theory anything non-IP is OpenD6, it would be a lot quicker to release a generic OpenD6 document. You'd still have to credit the original authors.

What I'm suggesting is that instead of just agreeing that it's "2nd. Ed." we should have an actual OpenD6 Second Edition manual that can be referenced. If you can just lift and scrub material from the published book it's a matter of days at slacker speed to produce a generic 2nd. Ed. manual.

[Grimace]

I'll bite on the D6 System Book. It comes in actually as a proto-2nd edition Revised & Expanded.

So if you were calculating it all out, you'd have:

Ghostbusters = D6 Proto 1st edition
Star Wars First Edition = D6 1st edition
Star Wars 2nd Edition = D6 2nd edition
D6 System Book = D6 Proto 2.5 edition
Star Wars 2nd Edition R&E = D6 2.5 edition
Metabarons = D6 2.5 edition
Psibertroopers = D6 2.5 edition
3 Core Books = D6 3rd edition

[Rerun941]

I might say swap the System book and 2nd Ed R&E... they may have not been published in that order, but the Cookbook is the first time we see the Body Points system outlined... and that's one change that I would consider to be major enough to warrant a new version. *shrug*

[Grimace]

Yes, however the D6 System book introduced scale in terms of added dice, though the amounts were completely variable and not at set amounts like in 2nd Edition R&E. So it's six of one, half dozen of the other. Up to you, but I still think they're both essentially 2.5. I just put the D6 System book as "proto" type because it was rather unrefined in many ways and 2nd Edition R&E is probably the ultimate in refinement for Star Wars editions.

[Whill]

I'll just riff off of those who posted before me...

Ghostbusters = Proto-D6 (That's what Eric Gibson calls it - Not that his opinion is superior, but I can't disagree.)

Star Wars 1E (1987) = D6 1.0
Star Wars 1E + Rules Upgrade insert (1988) = D6 1.2
Star Wars 1E + Rules Companion (1989) D6 1.5

Star Wars 2E (1992) = D6 2.0
Star Wars 2E R&E (1996)= D6 2.5
The D6 System (1996) = D6 2.5+
Metabarons (2001) = D6 2.5

Purgatory D6 Core Genre Books (2004) = D6 3.0

[Lee Torres]

I quite like Whill's version, actually.

[Whill]

I don't know if it is really valuable to relate all the D6 games (like Metabarons and Psibertroopers), but I threw in Metabarons because I know that one a little better than most of the non-Star Wars games, and it is so 2.5.

But yeah, even most modern gamers of Star Wars D6 forget (or never knew) about the Star Wars RPG Rules Upgrade and Rules Companion. (Well people also forget about 1.0 and 2.0 for that matter).

One thing I am a little curious on though is Ghostbuster International. That is the only D6 game I don't own and I've never even seen it. Where does GBI fall, or does it really matter?

[RocketDad]

What I'm suggesting is that instead of just agreeing that it's "2nd. Ed." we should have an actual OpenD6 Second Edition manual that can be referenced. If you can just lift and scrub material from the published book it's a matter of days at slacker speed to produce a generic 2nd. Ed. manual.

You know, I like that idea. As a purely OpenD6 product, refrencing and/or using these rules verbatim strikes me as more kosher. Anything to avoid apparant infringement on the Lucasfilm license...

[Lee Torres]

Speaking as one of the team that scrubbed the D6 Legend OGL out of DC Universe, unless WEG released PDF versions of the Star Wars books (which I don't recall, but maybe they did), it's a considerable undertaking. First someone needs to type all of that information in, then go over it with a fine-toothed comb to make sure that no inadvertent IP violations crept through. I think it's a fantastic idea, but I wouldn't want anyone to go into it thinking it'll be a task for a free weekend.

Unless you type really fast, and never get tired of raw transcription. If you're that person, have at it!

[Grimace]

West End Games never officially released any Star Wars material in PDF format. There are copies made, but they are definitely not official. Most Star Wars material put out by them was done well before there was the ubiquity of the internet and PDF formats for files.

[Wester]

I'm willing to have a go at it. It'll be tedious, but I don't think it's necessary to transcribe the entire manual. Looking at the book now, there's a lot of art and caption boxes that don't need to be in there, large sections and entire chapters that don't really need to be there, and a lot of IP that can't be there.

I doubt I'll find time for it in a weekend, but I can't see it taking forever. It'll just be text, but if somebody wants to take it and dress it up later they'll be welcome to it.

[Lee Torres]

I'm willing to have a go at it. It'll be tedious, but I don't think it's necessary to transcribe the entire manual. Looking at the book now, there's a lot of art and caption boxes that don't need to be in there, large sections and entire chapters that don't really need to be there, and a lot of IP that can't be there.

I doubt I'll find time for it in a weekend, but I can't see it taking forever. It'll just be text, but if somebody wants to take it and dress it up later they'll be welcome to it.

That's very true - in DCU there were entire sections on locations and characters that would have been fruitless to attempt "filing the serial numbers off" of, so they were left out entirely. I'm sure the same holds true for Star Wars, so that'll reduce the effort. Good luck! Looking forward to it joining the list of available rules!

[RocketDad]

I agree with Lee and Wester. When you factor in the ships, vehicles, species, the Force, and other SW specifics, you're easily looking at a third of the book gone - maybe more.
Rather than a single brave volunteer, what we could do is set up a Wiki, or make use of OpenD6 Resurrection. That way, anybody who has time and wants to help can add or edit sections. Once the material is looking thoroughly edited for IP, we could then compile it into a free PDF and put it on DriveThruRPG and RPGNow.

[Wester]

When you leave out the IP, fluff, and roleplaying tips, and just copy the barebones rules, you're looking at less than 20% of the book. Leave out lengthy descriptions of skills and how-tos for actions that can be found in other OpenD6 books, and pare down the stuff you do transcribe, and you're not looking at much more than 10% even if you include "scrubbed" rules for droids, the force, and vehicles.

Speaking of the Force rules, there's really not much there beyond "the force" name itself that is strictly IP. In some cases the names of particular force skills have made it into canon or been retained by d20 editions, but even in those instances it's not usually a blatant case of lifting licensed content.

I'm open to the idea of using a wiki format, provided each of us notifies the others as to what section they intend to tackle first so we're not duplicating one another. The Resurrection wiki is a great tool but I'm sure how Eric Gibson would feel about that based on his comments in the past. There's still supposed to be an opend6 site afaik that has built in functionality for that, last I checked, but I'm not sure how long anyone wants to wait for that to materialize.

[RocketDad]

There's still supposed to be an opend6 site afaik that has built in functionality for that, last I checked, but I'm not sure how long anyone wants to wait for that to materialize.

Who was working on that? If it was Eric, he may not have the time (or the stomach) to work on something like that. I'm not really a fan of "waiting for someone else to do it", especially as it pertains to OpenD6. The way I see it, we are OpenD6; if anyone is gonna get something done, it's us.

[Wester]

Oh, he no longer plans on having that site? Last time I checked in, over a year ago, he seemed angry at OpenD6 resurrection and was still insisting that his site was almost ready to roll. I was actually a bit surprised to see this site a few months ago, and all the OpenD6 releases that have come down the pipe recently.

So that's a no go, then? Who runs the wikidot site?

[Grimace]

The OpenD6 site that was to house the bulk of all OpenD6 material is a no-go. It has been abandoned. Last time Eric was on here he was rather ill-tempered and I don't think he realized that people were doing the things they were doing because they were tired of waiting and waiting and waiting with nothing to show for it. It was shortly after that episode that he re-wrote the OGL to remove the need for the D6 STL and also releasing the OpenD6 name and logo to the OGL so people could use it.

The fellow that was working on the OpenD6 site hasn't been on here in about a year and he was pretty sparse even when he was occasionally posting. He was basically doing it for pay, and I very much believe Eric isn't paying him to do it anymore so chances are better than good that the site will never be finished.

The fellow that originally created the D6 Resurrection wiki was a very short time away from getting married and another fairly life changing event. Then after the fruit-basket upset over the D6 Resurrection site, the guy all but disappeared. I don't think he's visited here since around the time he was scheduled to get married.

Best bet is to not rely on other people to finish projects. If you are doing something, do it. If you want help, let those who want to help know what you want them to do, but don't plan on it getting done. When you finish with your own stuff, start working on stuff that you've asked others to do that haven't provided anything yet.
Don't wait for sites to get done. Do what works best for you.

As Rocketdad suggested, we are the people who are propelling OpenD6 now, so we can only rely on ourselves.

[RocketDad]

...the upshot being that there are probably more people working on OpenD6 now than ever worked at WEG, even at their height ;)

[Whill]

Grimace is right. Eric Gibson has opened the D6 system and released it to the world. Eric has very emphatically abandoned his plans to have any active role in the OpenD6 community, and his planned website was defintely dropped. Eric has also sold off most WEG properties piecemeal. This is all documented in threads on this website so I thought it was well known by users of this forum. I believe the only thing Eric still owns of any value is the publishing imprint "West End Games" itself.

The D6 fan community IS OpenD6. That means me and you. Make the most of it!