The economy

[imported_Magman]

Haven't been on the boards in a bit - sorry folks, real busy of late so I am not sure if this was discussed. But a question to Hellsreach. With the economy taken a historical turn for the worse, has that been slowing the process/or halting the selling of WEG ?

I have too assume anything business oriented these days is like playing with knives.

[Kalzazz]

hmmm, given RPGing is a pretty cheap stay at home hobby, youd think it wouldnt be hurt to much

[skeloric]

hmmm, given RPGing is a pretty cheap stay at home hobby, you'd think it wouldn't be hurt to much
At the price of books it sure is NOT cheap.

[The Game Guy]

Haven't been on the boards in a bit - sorry folks, real busy of late so I am not sure if this was discussed. But a question to Hellsreach. With the economy taken a historical turn for the worse, has that been slowing the process/or halting the selling of WEG ?

I have too assume anything business oriented these days is like playing with knives.

I am going to let Hellsreach/Eric give you more of an answer, but that came up at our group gathering and he said it is still in the process.

He said a few other things but I am going to let him decide to tell you those things are not, as I am not sure what I am free to say and what was said in confidence.

[hellsreach]

I wouldn't say the economy is having as much effect as other factors, but it certainly doesn't help. The purchase of any large amount of assets take more money than most people have on hand and getting loans in this economy means jumping through many hoops, if it's possible at all. still, there are many factors slowing the process not all of which are financial.

[ngarrang]

I have too assume anything business oriented these days is like playing with knives.

I like playing with knives. I have won a lot of knife throwing tournaments with them.

[skeloric]

I like playing with knives. I have won a lot of knife throwing tournaments with them.
Then consider the economy to be more like a toddler playing with knives.

[ngarrang]

Then consider the economy to be more like a toddler playing with knives.

Okay, he is only up to about 50/50 on his accuracy. But, at age 3, I really need to get him a set knives more his size.

:D

You should see him with his atlatl darts.

[skeloric]

Okay, he is only up to about 50/50 on his accuracy. But, at age 3, I really need to get him a set knives more his size.

:D

You should see him with his atlatl darts.

You are starting to frighten me.

[ngarrang]

It is a bit off topic, but one of my beloved hobbies is primitive weapons. My son, being a normal boy, wants to try everything that daddy is doing.

To keep this on topic, in light of the economy, I have been encouraging him to be active with the toys he already has and expose him to these sort of leisure sports because if you can make your own stuff, it is dirt cheap to play with.

With two kids, my once mighty gaming budget has dwindled down to about 1 or 2 books per year. More if go the PDF route. I recently bought the Basic RolePlaying Book and Fifth Cycle, but it has been months since my previous purchase of a gaming book.

[The Game Guy]

I have too assume anything business oriented these days is like playing with knives.

Well doing anything businesslike can be like playing with knives, but it is even worse in the rpg industry.

I was planning to start a game company but I think at this point and the condition the hobby and industry is in, anyone thinking about getting into the industry should have their head examined.

[Stormchild]

Yup. It is a very small market with a huge competition. Most in the market are small fish and then there are some sharks and one leviathan. Most fans that come up with the idea of writing their own RPG are also thinking about creating their own tiny publishing company. Not many people who like to read books will try to create their own publishing house only to publish their own books, but roleplayers do.

With the D20 system wizard tried to become a real publishing house specialized in RPG. Any real publishing house acts as a middle man between the authors and the book stores. This is the reason I am thinking about self-publishing. This line of distribution has a bad reputation due to the many scams. But when I find a reliable one, I will surely try this approach. RPG is ideal for self-publishing as the distribution and marketing is unique there.

In the book industry, a publishing house's main job is marketing. It is impossible for an author to get his book into the shelves of the book stores. He needs the publishing houses to do that. But the RPG market has got its own fan-based marketing and distribution channels. You don't need to place ads in time magazine to sell a RPG book. You can't go to a book fair with your self-published book and read from it in public.

In RPG the fan-based magazines and internet sites write about new games (and ads are cheap there too) and you can host games of your self-published RPG at most cons (though I don't know how this is with professional cons in the US as in germany all cons except one are fan-based and even on the company con they don't give a damn what game you host),. The only problem is distribution and getting an ISBN-number and this is taken care of by the self-publishing company.

The small fish RPG companies have taken the wrong approach trying to be just like book publishing companies. This is expensive and dangerous. There still is room in the market. But then there is the current crisis. I don't know in what direction the world market will go. As it looks now, the trust crisis is about to change into a fundamental crisis. This is no environment to begin anything business-oriented. When the customers have no money to spare, it is foolish to offer them anything.

[skeloric]

I was planning to start a game company but I think at this point and the condition the hobby and industry is in, anyone thinking about getting into the industry should have their head examined.
This more than anything is why the sale of WEG is probably taking so long to finalize.

[Kalzazz]

As my professors have noted 'the economic climate is ideal for grad school'

[The Game Guy]

This more than anything is why the sale of WEG is probably taking so long to finalize.

I can say it probably isn't helping, that's for sure.

[The Game Guy]

The small fish RPG companies have taken the wrong approach trying to be just like book publishing companies. This is expensive and dangerous. There still is room in the market. But then there is the current crisis. I don't know in what direction the world market will go. As it looks now, the trust crisis is about to change into a fundamental crisis. This is no environment to begin anything business-oriented. When the customers have no money to spare, it is foolish to offer them anything.

There is still room in the market, but if you are going to start a business you might as well spend the money on something else, something you are going to make more gains on.

Let's face it, even the big guys are having a problem. I am sure some companies will go out of business because of the situation and that's actually a good thing. There are too many game companies out there as it is, as the market is way too flooded for more games to be seen by a large part of the market.

What we need are like we had in the past, a few game companies putting out games. That way there would be some quality control and the market wouldn't be flooded with so much chaff.

[Stormchild]

And it is normal for any market. First there are a lot of enthusiasts forming their own companies, then concentratrion kicks in, the survivors get bigger and more professional and the market becomes saturated. In the city where I live with less than 400.000 inhabitants we once had more than 10 breweries that sold their product country-wide. Two survived to the 70s. The last was bought up in the 90s. And now there is a pub with its own small brewery again. It is not difficult to build a hobby-brewery but it is expensive and extremely difficult to establish a professional one that delivers to the stores. The same with roleplaying companies.

[The Game Guy]

And it is normal for any market. First there are a lot of enthusiasts forming their own companies, then concentratrion kicks in, the survivors get bigger and more professional and the market becomes saturated. In the city where I live with less than 400.000 inhabitants we once had more than 10 breweries that sold their product country-wide. Two survived to the 70s. The last was bought up in the 90s. And now there is a pub with its own small brewery again. It is not difficult to build a hobby-brewery but it is expensive and extremely difficult to establish a professional one that delivers to the stores. The same with roleplaying companies.

Yep. I believe eventually things will work themselves out, partially because of the way business works and partly because of the way the industry is.

[Whill]

As my professors have noted 'the economic climate is ideal for grad school'

Kalzazz, Huh?

[skeloric]

Kalzazz, Huh?

I think it will go like this: "can't find work, might as well [go back to/stay in] school."

[hellsreach]

I think it will go like this: "can't find work, might as well [go back to/stay in] school."

That's what I took it to mean. If you loose your job and cannot seem to compete for fewer jobs available, going back to school is not a terrible idea.

[The Game Guy]

That's what I took it to mean. If you loose your job and cannot seem to compete for fewer jobs available, going back to school is not a terrible idea.

Yeah I am thinking about going back to school myself so I can possiably get into another field. The IT/Computer field is just awful right now.

[Whill]

That's what I took it to mean. If you loose your job and cannot seem to compete for fewer jobs available, going back to school is not a terrible idea.

Oh, OK. Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

I guess I should count my blessings again because I have a fairly secure job in the healthcare industry.

[hellsreach]

I too am seriously thinking about going back to school (planning, actually). My wife is a teacher and she is keen on my going back to school to be a teacher myself. One teacher doesn't make a ton of money, but two in a household makes for a solidly middle-class lifestyle. Besides, a couple with two simultanious months off every year and a lot of timeshare time is nothing to cough at.

[The Game Guy]

I too am seriously thinking about going back to school (planning, actually). My wife is a teacher and she is keen on my going back to school to be a teacher myself. One teacher doesn't make a ton of money, but two in a household makes for a solidly middle-class lifestyle. Besides, a couple with two simultanious months off every year and a lot of timeshare time is nothing to cough at.

How long would you need to go back to school to accomplish this?

[hellsreach]

Not sure. Depends on if I was going to school full time. A couple years, I presume.

[Cryonic]

I would expect at least 2 years full time to get a degree for teaching. Partly depends on where you go and how much of the "core" classes they allow you to skip.

[hellsreach]

I would expect at least 2 years full time to get a degree for teaching. Partly depends on where you go and how much of the "core" classes they allow you to skip.

Precisely. Of course, I'm sure I've most of my core taken care of anyway. I have to check with the school to see where I stand and, if possible, I'll be back in class for the winter term.

Of course, I won't be going back to my old school, Drexel University, that place is way too expensive. I'm looking at a State school this time around.

$8 vs $40 ... Seems like a no-brainer.

[Whill]

I too am seriously thinking about going back to school (planning, actually). My wife is a teacher and she is keen on my going back to school to be a teacher myself. One teacher doesn't make a ton of money, but two in a household makes for a solidly middle-class lifestyle. Besides, a couple with two simultanious months off every year and a lot of timeshare time is nothing to cough at.

Despite the frustruations you had previously mentioned your wife having with WEG busness, you must have a very good marriage, hellsreach. I just got married this year and I love my wife. We have had a few very nice 1-2 week vacations together over the years. We can enjoy spending time together for more mundane things too. However, I still value my time away from her too, and I feel it is vital for the ongoing success of our marriage. If my wife and I had two months off simultaneously, I think I would go insane! And she would likely want to kill me before the end.

Anyway, cheers to to you and Mrs. G! And best wishes on the going back to school plans.

[hellsreach]

Fortunately, my wife also tends to spend time in Atlanta every summer visiting her best friend and "girls" vacations to of wine tours in Michigan, Dickens on the Strand in Texas and similar with her cousins. Likewise, I'm sure I'm be able to get away to game convensions, art seminars, and the like where she will not go.

I love my wife dearly, but I certainly could not imagine spending two full months with her. Still, it's nice that we'll be able to spend some of that time vacationing together.

[The Game Guy]

I would expect at least 2 years full time to get a degree for teaching. Partly depends on where you go and how much of the "core" classes they allow you to skip.

Could you (if you were going to school and were planning to become a teacher) do some of the teacher related things at at the same time so by the time you got out of college you were ready to go? Or do you have to do your undergraduate work and then do the teaching degree part?

[ngarrang]

Alternately, for someone looking for a job that could pay well and doesn't mind working with their hands, consider a skilled trade.

Electricians, plumbers, HVAC, carpenters, etc.

These are all important jobs are necessary even in a down economy. People pay cut back on buying a new computer or a new video game console, but many will still call a plumber to fix their kitchen sink, or the electrician to wire up a new light fixture.

There is a huge market for someone who can develop a reputation for reliability, honesty and quality work.

[Cryonic]

Could you (if you were going to school and were planning to become a teacher) do some of the teacher related things at at the same time so by the time you got out of college you were ready to go? Or do you have to do your undergraduate work and then do the teaching degree part?

They aren't separate things. The teaching degree is the BA. What determines if you'll need to do all 4 years or get away with just 2 is how much the college will take in from previous time in college. E.g. do you have english, math, etc... from a previous college (based on transcripts and accreditation of other schools).

[The Game Guy]

They aren't separate things. The teaching degree is the BA. What determines if you'll need to do all 4 years or get away with just 2 is how much the college will take in from previous time in college. E.g. do you have english, math, etc... from a previous college (based on transcripts and accreditation of other schools).

Ok well I had no idea. Thanks for clearing that up

[hellsreach]

They aren't separate things. The teaching degree is the BA. What determines if you'll need to do all 4 years or get away with just 2 is how much the college will take in from previous time in college. E.g. do you have english, math, etc... from a previous college (based on transcripts and accreditation of other schools).

Or, if you already have a non-teaching BA, you could get an MMasters of Education. Roughly the same amount of time either way ~2ish years if full time and aggressive in your course load.

[The Game Guy]

Or, if you already have a non-teaching BA, you could get an MMasters of Education. Roughly the same amount of time either way ~2ish years if full time and aggressive in your course load.

Cool. Interesting to know.