Simultaneous Combat Rounds

[Neo-Paladin]

Has there been any thought in the community regarding simultaneous combat rounds? Basically everyone declares their actions at the start of the round, and they all resolve at once, then the next round begins.

There's a few things I like about this idea:
it cuts down the amount of dice rolling, which speeds combat
better reflects the chaos of combat (does it look like these guys are rolling initiative? -> :fight:)
it would seem to tighten up the narrative and add drama to combat.

However, there are a few situations that would require special attention:
simultaneous combat rounds doesn't inherently lend itself to dueling or fighting with parrying. The work around in the back of my head would be ruling that by attacking by melee in one round puts you out of position to attack the next round, and would incur a -1D penalty to attacks in the next round. You're free to multi-action a parry followed by an attack with normal penalties incurred.

When two opponents declare attack in the same round, an alertness check determines who's attack gets priority, and the loser may parry (at -1D?). The loser can take the damage and attack anyway, but damage is done first and the following attacks suffer wound penalty.

If you want to preempt an enemy's action (besides a parry, which is a standard action), you have to declare the specific target and action you want to preempt. If target doesn't act or acts differently than expected you don't act that round. If the target does act, you have to make an alertness check to successfully preempt your target's actions.

If you spend an entire combat round readying you can declare and resolve your combat action that round before the normal combat round declarations are made (I'm ambivalent about this one, it may be too many 'special' rules).

Otherwise, questions of priority are determined by rolling alertness.

Any thoughts? Does this idea have merit? Am I missing a scenario I really should consider?

[Rerun941]

I run my combat rounds in two phases (very similar to the old 1st Ed combat round): a Declaration Phase and a Resolution Phase
Declaration Phase: based on a Perception check. Lowest perception result declares first. Multiple actions (if any) must be declared now. (More perceptive characters see more of the action unfolding in front of them.)
Resolution Phase: based on the skill rolls of the participants. Highest result happens first. If multiple actions were declared, the first action is resolved first with additional resolution phases for the 2nd action, 3rd action, etc. (Characters with better skills have their actions happen first.)

It really speeds up combat, too. Players can declare their action and immediately roll their action and remember the result. Once all players have declared, everyone has all their action results rolled & ready to be racked & stacked from highest to lowest.

[MikeEnglish]

Not a fan. The way I run games, each player gets a moment in the spotlight during their action.

[Rerun941]

Oh, forgot to mention, Perception is rolled once at the beginning of each combat scene. So, you're not rolling Perception every round.

And after Declaration and Resolution is done for the first round, repeat for next combat round. Declare and Resolve, Declare and Resolve...

Everyone still gets their moment in the sun during the Resolution phase.

[Neo-Paladin]

(Characters with better skills have their actions happen first.)
So, if two guys are dueling, the one with better skills always goes first, so he can just attack and attack and attack, and the less skilled opponent never gets initiative?
Am I missing something?

[Rerun941]

Not never. I should have phrased that better. The character with higher skill will tend to have their actions resolved first. (because they will tend to get higher results for their action.)

In a duel, during the Resolution phase, if duelist A gets a 25 for his shot and duelist B gets a 24. The 25 hits first. (Assuming neither dodged and both beat the range difficulty.) If duelist B doesn't lose his action from being wounded, his shot will happen next.

[Wester]

It's an interesting concept, but I'm not sure how suited it really is to most combat. You're inevitably going to have situations where there's no obvious method of determining who got hit first - that's why there's initiative in games.

I always had every combatant make an initiative roll, not just a representative roll for each side, unless they were acting as a unit. It creates the entire dynamic of combat in my opinion.

Simultaneous rounds might be more suitable for a more streamlined game variant. In my experience players and gameplay situations usually force you to add detail to the rules, not take it out. Suppose both combatants rolled a 25? Suppose 3 or 4 combatants rolled a 25?

If you simply declare the character with the highest die code as the winner, players are going to rebel.

[Stuart]

I ran combat similar to Rerun:

1: Initiative phase - Each Player or NPC faction rolls Perception, the higher the better
2: Declaration - Each Player or NPC faction declares their actions (including multiple actions) from lowest initiative to highest.
3: 1st Action Resolution - Each Player or NPC rolls for their declared action. Unlike Rerun's method, all actions are resolved simultaneously. Anyone can drop their declared action for a half reaction action. For example, if John declares he's going to fire his gun, he can decide instead to make a half dodge instead of firing his weapon.
4: 2nd Actions and so on - Anyone who declared multiple actions now take their 2nd action. Play continues until everyone has made all of their declared actions.

However, I like Rerun's method of having Players roll their action as they are declaring it and remembering the result. I can so how that would streamline combat. As GM, I have prerolled a lot of NPC actions to streamline things as well.

[Kalzazz]

Mine goes as follows
1. Init is rolled (Per or Dex (pick whichever you like, Mech or Per in vehicles), with mods)
2. Everyone goes in init order, actions are declared at the same time as resolved, all actions for a given character are declared at once but may have conditional statements (I attack 4 times and hold a defense, the actions will be at the guy in melee range until he drops, then switch to blaster and engage ranged targets, defense will be a parry if first attack against me is melee, dodge if its ranged)
If people roll equal init then actions are declared and resolved simultaneously (if necessary write down the declarations and flip to reveal at same time), they may well be Bob declares 'I hit Joe' and Joe declares 'I hit Bob' and if both succeed they kill each other since went simul

[Wester]

I do it thusly:

1. Initiative Phase - highest initiative declares last. All PCs roll initiative, not just the PC with the highest skill.
2. Open Phase - characters can make most non-combat rolls without penalty, including defensive rolls, simple actions, and some movement. I guess this phase at least is simultaneous.
2. Action Phase 1 - highest initiative acts first
3. Action Phase 2 - ditto

I only use two action segments, not up to four like in SW 2nd ed., for several reasons. A, it's faster; B, 3rd and 4th actions tend to be useless anyway after penalties; and C, characters with combat-related Abilities (Abilities are similar perhaps to Special Abilities in cinema6, but less varied and more "traditional") have access to "sub-phase actions" like a possible block and counter, multiple strikes per phase, combinations, etc.

Edit: I should add that my rules developed for fantasy, and for the most part differ from SW 2nd Ed. only where it seemed necessary for the fantasy genre (this was before D6 Fantasy). If I was running a SW game I would still use almost vanilla 2nd Ed. rules, including 4 action segments, but I think I would keep the Open Phase.

[mindspike]

In the ruleset I'm developing for OpenD6 Optimal, the Perception/Intiative phase is done away with entirely in favor of direct skill use. Players declare their actions and roll their skill dice. Action resolves from the highest roll on down, with some actions pre-empting others. For instance, two guys fighting both roll, the higher roll decks the lower.

Statistical variations occur most dramatically at the low end of the scale, giving a difference of +/-18% within 1D die codes, +/-14% at 2D die codes, +/-11% at 3D die codes and so on. So that a contest between 3D and 3D+2 will favor the higher code about 20% of the time. A contest between 3D+2 and 4D will favor the higher code about 14% of the time. As die codes rise, the bell curve evens out statistical variation.

Removing the Initiative step from resolution like this has made our combats more chaotic in nature as characters scramble for circumstantial bonuses. It has worked well so far in pure storytelling situations, but lacks a great deal when applied tactically with miniatures.

[Wester]

I think it really depends on the kind of game you want to run, and on your players. Like you say, for pure storytelling or for a faster-paced "cinematic" feel a more minimalist approach works better, but in the fantasy genre -- and with the players I tend to have -- I needed that tactical framework in place. I use initiative for more than just the order of play, but also to derive certain modifiers in advanced combat situations.

It was about striking a balance between the level of detail the power gamers and simulationists like myself craved, while keeping it fast and simple; keeping it D6 as it were. I've always felt that D6 lends itself very well to satisfying both sides of that equation.

[AdAstraGames]

I use a "Declare, no conditionals, then draw cards and try to trade" mechanic in Minimus. While I like it for that, it's not going to appeal to people who want to play combat on a map.

For D6 Dramatics, I largely ported the shot clock mechanism from Feng Shui:

You roll 2d6+ and add your initiative to the results. (Init is based on Agility and Awareness). This is how many clock ticks you get.

Each combat sequence starts from the highest total number of clock ticks and counts down. Each action you take takes anywhere from 3-4 ticks. Some actions can be aborted to (Parries and blocks) preemptively spending shots. Actions that take 3 or fewer ticks can always be done on tics 2 or 1. Longer actions will have their balance deducted from next turn's initiative round.

[Treblig]

This way worked for me: NO INITIATIVE.

Everyone declares everything at the beginning of the round. People can change their mind, until everyone is finished. Some things are not permitted, the players may not have access to certain knowledge. If they don't they can make knowledge or perception checks for free during this phase, until they know enough. You can have some conditionals; but even actions you conditionally plan count as actions even if you don't do them. I.E. If this happens I do this, otherwise I do that.... counts as 2 actions, this and that. Actions are resolved one at a time... except defenses (such as dodge) do not have to be in sequence...


People can decide to go first by spending extra actions, 'Haste' actions. One action lets you go before anyone else who isn't also expending a haste. People can bid haste actions until they become panicked and ineffective.


Example: I jump in through the window, stab the trooper, grab the mcguffin, and jump back out the window. The DM says I surprised the trooper, so I get one free haste action. The trooper is going to shoot me. I declare an additional dodge action.

So... I jump in through the window, (one haste, trooper does not yet get to go), I stab the trooper ... damn, rolled badly! He's not down! trooper shoots me at the same time, but I dodge, I grab the mcguffin.... I jump back out the window.