How to Fix Bloodshadows Magic

[The Game Guy]

Breaking off from the Bloodshadows Magic thread a few people have said that magic in Bloodshadows is limited or lacking in some areas.

How can the magic in Bloodshadows be fixed?

[Stormchild]

I don't see the Magic in Bloodshadows to be in need of fixing. At least not more than Masterbook, D6 or Torg magic system. But in the world there is too much magic prevalent. This world just doesn't work if you think it through. Everything can be done with magic, so why develop Tech in the first place? Magic could be limited by limiting the number of decent spellcasters, but as it is presented nearly everybody knows how to use some magic. So you have a world of hand-working people which would lead to another social system, a system you can still watch in the middle-east and Africa, dominated by crafters or basaris.

Is this a problem? If you want to have Serie Noir with magic, it is. For the feel of Serie Noir you need the big cities, the big rich for whom hundreds of bad-educated people toil in assembly-lines, the cities that are crowded with these people, the mob which rules because it can use the despair and vices of these people...

If you want to have a society of crafters and basaris with magic and horror, then this is no problem, but it lacks the Serie Noir feel. This can be emulated by featuring the setting in depressing times. Imagine Somalia. It could work, but certainly is a different world than featured in the Sourcebooks (that need not be bad). Nearly everybody knows some magic but can fetch no price for his skills as the economy is down. It is basically a buyer-market. The only working economy is crime. Smuggling, vice, extortion are ripe. Few big rich rule supreme but only in a very profitable niche like mining. This is a version that could be gleaned from how Bloodshadows was presented, but it lacks the face-less masses that are a staple of Serie Noir.

Another way would be to reduce magic. This is how I handle Bloodshadows. Most people only know some cantrips and cantrips are done using small Elementals (like the watchers in Shadowrun). In order to use a cantrip you have to buy an Elemental from a magician. The magician teaches the Elemental some basic skills and teaches the buyer how to give orders to this Elemental with some explicit gestures. These Elementals can also be bound into a tool. So you have a fire elemental that can heat your coffee and an air Elemental that puts the ingredients for your coffee together. Either you buy both Elementals that can also do other tasks or you buy a water boiler with a fire Elemental built in or a coffee machine with both Elementals built in. The machine is produced in assembly-lines and a (high paid) magician conjures the Elementals. This version of course leads to another class of wealthy citizens, the magician. But they are already presented in Bloodshadows, the magic district being what wall street is in our world.

[Kalzazz]

Id get rid of the CP cost to learn spells and reduce the time required to do so I think as a first step, that might be all that is required

Ill have to check my D6 Bloodshadows book later to remember what all I thought needed fixing

[The Game Guy]

Id get rid of the CP cost to learn spells and reduce the time required to do so I think as a first step, that might be all that is required

Ill have to check my D6 Bloodshadows book later to remember what all I thought needed fixing

Maybe saying it needs to be fixed is a little unfair. Perhaps I should have said that the rules could stand to be tweaked and tuned up.

[The Game Guy]

I really need to get ahold of Bloodshadows because from what I did read of the book it sounds like a great setting.

[Cryonic]

I don't see a reason to get rid of CPs for learning new spells. One spends CPs to learn/improve skills.

[The Game Guy]

I don't see a reason to get rid of CPs for learning new spells. One spends CPs to learn/improve skills.

How do you find the CP spending useful? Not questioning you just curious to see your train of thought.

[Cryonic]

Spending CPs is the cost of learning or improving as a character. Why should the spellcaster get things for free (their spells) that everyone else is having to spend CPs to improve. They aren't like D&D Wizards (Wizards, not sorcerers) as bloodshadows casters can carry around their entire spell repertoire in their head all the time and cast their spells as long as they have the needed components.

So, it is a game balance issue. Else you can end up with casters with huge repertoires of spells that allow them to be able to do whatever they want while the rest of the players are still struggling their way up in improvement.

[Kalzazz]

I think the design time limits in the main book already put a sufficient hamper on mages getting a slew of potent spells. Someone with melee skill doesnt need to spend CP when he picks up a new sword, having the skill at the appropriate level should represent you know what your doing with it

I do like the idea of making people roll to see if theyve learned the spell, and Im mildly cool with the idea of mastery, not the idea of it taking super long, but the idea of making teachers and grimoires more important

I still disagree with the notion a teacher has to be more skilled than the student however, not all coaches and managers were as good as the athletes they coach, they do however have good teaching skill

[The Game Guy]

Maybe there is a middle ground somewhere, something between CPS and not using CPS at all.

I am going to think about this for a little bit.

[Stormchild]

Yes there is. You can integrate this into the advantages/disadvantages system. When you take the magic advantage, you get a certain number of spell points for free (f.i. Torg gives 12 spell points for free with a full magician). Then you can add the disadvantage reduced free spell points and the additional advantage enhanced free spell points.

[The Game Guy]

Yes there is. You can integrate this into the advantages/disadvantages system. When you take the magic advantage, you get a certain number of spell points for free (f.i. Torg gives 12 spell points for free with a full magician). Then you can add the disadvantage reduced free spell points and the additional advantage enhanced free spell points.

I like the idea of using advantages and disadvantages but can you expand on this a bit more? I am not totally grasping what you are getting at.

[Stormchild]

Though this is not in the D6 thread, I presume you are talking about the D6 version of Bloodshadows

Just a first thought based on D6 Bloodshadows (as far as I remember the rules)

Advantage: full magician R4. The character is allowed to put dice in all 4 magic skills and may learn any arcane knowledge. Of course he has to put dice into the magic attribute. when he puts at least one pip into each magic skill he receives 12 dice to distribute on magic skills, arcane knowledges and spells. Each arcane knowledge costs one die, each spell one pip and magic skills are treated as normal skills.

Aspected magician R3. The character is allowed to put dice in either all 4 magic skill but may learn only one arcane knowledge or he may learn all arcane knowledges but only one magic skill. Of course he has to put dice into the magic attribute. In addition he receives 6 dice to distribute on magic skills, arcane knowledges and spells. Each arcane knowledge costs one die, each spell one pip and magic skills are treated as normal skills.

Magic dabbler R2. The character is allowed to put dice in 1 magic skill and one arcane knowledge. Of course he has to put dice into the magic attribute. In addition he receives 3 dice to distribute on spells. Each spell costs one pip, magic skills are treated as in the D6 Adventure rules (double cost et al).

Cantrip magician, normal Bloodshadows characters. This is no advantage nor disadvantage. These characters can put dice into their magic attribute but are not allowed to put dice into magic skills, spells or arcane knowledges. But they can learn it later in the game. In addition they can learn cantrips.

Disadvantage: Magical inability R3. The character can never have any dice in his magic attribute and may not learn cantrips. He may use magical equipment though that doesn't require magical aptitude.

[The Game Guy]

Though this is not in the D6 thread, I presume you are talking about the D6 version of Bloodshadows

Yes we are


Just a first thought based on D6 Bloodshadows (as far as I remember the rules)

Advantage: full magician R4. The character is allowed to put dice in all 4 magic skills and may learn any arcane knowledge. Of course he has to put dice into the magic attribute. when he puts at least one pip into each magic skill he receives 12 dice to distribute on magic skills, arcane knowledges and spells. Each arcane knowledge costs one die, each spell one pip and magic skills are treated as normal skills.

Aspected magician R3. The character is allowed to put dice in either all 4 magic skill but may learn only one arcane knowledge or he may learn all arcane knowledges but only one magic skill. Of course he has to put dice into the magic attribute. In addition he receives 6 dice to distribute on magic skills, arcane knowledges and spells. Each arcane knowledge costs one die, each spell one pip and magic skills are treated as normal skills.

Magic dabbler R2. The character is allowed to put dice in 1 magic skill and one arcane knowledge. Of course he has to put dice into the magic attribute. In addition he receives 3 dice to distribute on spells. Each spell costs one pip, magic skills are treated as in the D6 Adventure rules (double cost et al).

Cantrip magician, normal Bloodshadows characters. This is no advantage nor disadvantage. These characters can put dice into their magic skills but are not allowed to put dice into magic skills, spells or arcane knowledges. But they can learn it later in the game. In addition they can learn cantrips.

Disadvantage: Magical inability R3. The character can never have any dice in his magic attribute and may not learn cantrips. He may use magical equipment though that doesn't require magical aptitude.

Thank you for posting this. it makes it more clear to people like me who don't have bloodshadows.

[Stormchild]

Not to get misunderstood. These are no official advantages from Bloodshadows but my suggestions.
With the line
(as far as I remember the rules) I meant that I am not sure if this is really consistent to both the D6 adventure and the Bloodshadows rules.

And I just realized, I made a typing error:

Cantrip magician, normal Bloodshadows characters. This is no advantage nor disadvantage. These characters can put dice into their magic skills but are not allowed to put dice into magic skills, spells or arcane knowledges. But they can learn it later in the game. In addition they can learn cantrips.

Of course it should be they can put dice into their magic attribute.