Disappointing Purchases

[The Game Guy]

The "Games you are looking forward to" thread got me thinking about games you have purchased in the last year that ended up being disapointing.

What is your disappointing Game(s) Purchase?

[pathfinderap]

The rpg by the name of ZERO

:eek:

Don't go there,


Children of the Sun,
totally the suck,


I rarely buy anything bad,
(in fact just got hold of a Limited Edtion Buffy, signed by the authors,)

but people buy me bad things...bad, bad things
like,

Dallas the rpg
Solid! The d20 Blaxploitation Experience
WWE Know Your Role RPG (d20)

they think its funny, :eek: lol

[skeloric]

I try like hell to buy everything used so even if I find myself annoyed with it I'm not out big money.

But then there is my wall of shame -- over 70 D&D and D20 books, which will go on E*Bay as soon as I have researched E*Bay enough.

[ngarrang]

Seventh Sea.

It was one of my pre-order debacles. The GM and Player books arrived. Not only where the first prints filled with typo errors, but the books were missing a goodly portion of world information. In short, completely useless to run a game.

They were trying to follow the White Wolf method of requiring many books just to run one game.

[Stormchild]

A new edition of Earthdawn. I don't know which edition as it has become confusing due to different publishers. But this one was basically the same as first edition.

[Grimace]

I think the two most disappointing purchases for RPGs I've made are as follows: The Babylon Project (a Babylon 5 RPG that really kinda sucks). I didn't pay very much for it, thank goodness, but even then it was one of those things that I kinda wish I hadn't spent any money on.

And then the next wasn't a RPG system, just a sourcebook. It was GURPS WWII. I'd picked up other GURPS sourcebooks before and thought they were great, so I was basically going on the premise that this would be good too and bought it without looking over it first. What a disappointment. There were a couple of small parts that were pretty good, but as a whole it was a big let-down.

Ever since then, I've invested a lot of time into looking at an RPG game or sourcebook a lot before I spend the money. Since then, I've only bought one game, which was Epic RPG, and it's pretty awesome!

[skeloric]

I guess it shows how different people can be.
I love my GURPS WW2 book -- I even have 2 copies!

[pathfinderap]

Seventh Sea.

Thats a shame, I thought it was good, well maybe not the setting in full,
(and what I gather, from one of the playtesters on that project, they were changing it around right up to the last minute, do they have magic or not etc, wish they had said no on that part) but the rest of the game is great


I guess it shows how different people can be.
I love my GURPS WW2 book -- I even have 2 copies!

I too also have two copies (one hardback, one soft)
the only critical things I can say about this line is they made it more American eccentric in the core book (even though they didn't get involed until later on) and I would dispute some of his "fact", the Hands of steel book should have been part of the main core book, and Weird wars was crap, the rest is good, (you can play with just the core book, it comes with Gurps lite)

[Dorsai]

Rolemaster Express

Ye gods, that thing couldn't have been less comprehensible if it had been written in Linear B. And that was the light starter version?

Of course, I had the same problem with both MERP and HARP, so I guess I should have known. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...what does it mean if they fool me a third time?

[skeloric]

Rolemaster Express

Ye gods, that thing couldn't have been less comprehensible if it had been written in Linear B. And that was the light starter version?

Of course, I had the same problem with both MERP and HARP, so I guess I should have known. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...what does it mean if they fool me a third time?
It would mean either to stop making financial and purchasing decisions for yourself or run for president.

[skeloric]

I have MERP around the house somewhere, I even have a copy of Arms Law/Claw Law Rolemaster book.

there's a system I'm glad to not hear about as being in business.
Or at least, last I knew they weren't in business.

[Stormchild]

I like MERP, it is an easier version of Rolemaster and playable without the use of a computer. We played Rolemaster for a time and it only worked because the GM had every chart in his laptop and could produce every result with ease.

[The Game Guy]

For me really I have a few that were disappointing:

Aces and Eights- I just don't like games that use playing card mechanics- very gimmicky in my view. I was able to exchange it at my FLGS for something I actually wanted.

Two Fisted Tales- Great Pulp game but also uses the playing card mechanics. So it's on my list of games to sell.

Robotech RPG- The Shadow Chronicles- This is the first Palladium game I have purchased in awhile and I only did so because I am a Robotech fan. The information was less then complete and the art wasn't very good. This is another game I am going to sell.

[Stormchild]

What is your problem with a RPG that uses playing card mechanics? I am just curious as I am in the process of developing one.

[Cryonic]

I like some of the games that have implemented playing card usage, such as Deadlands Classic and the current Savage Worlds system.

[The Game Guy]

What is your problem with a RPG that uses playing card mechanics? I am just curious as I am in the process of developing one.

To me it's just gimmicky and goes away from what traditional rpgs are. I like traditional rpgs. Games that use playing cards aren't traditional rpgs (not in the way I have come to know them in the 20 years I have been gaming).

So if a game uses playing cards I refuse to buy it or even look at it. Do yourself a favor and stick to traditional games, games that use dice.

Don't go the playing card direction just to come across as cool, there is nothing the playing card mechanic can do that cannot be accomplished by using traditional dice.

[Stormchild]

Ok, a valid opinion. But I will use playing cards as they allow to integrate several things in one flip of a card instead of having to look it on a chart after the roll has been made. Also a card can be used to "remember" a roll. You can take it and have it with your character instead of writing the roll down or hoping to remember it. Also, the mathematics go in favor for cards. The more high card flips you have, the less are in the deck, while with dice, the chances are always the same. Of course, this is only good if you want de-escalating chances.

[skeloric]

More and more games offer card play as ONE of the options at the very least.
AFMBE from EDEN offers a card play mechanic as an alternative to the replace the dice mechanic they offer.
And I'd like to mention that TORG is quite likely the source of the notion of card play as Hensley who made Deadlands and Savage Worlds was part of TORG at one time -- at least as that is what I had heard.

[Kalzazz]

Cards dont bother me but dont impress me either

Im not a fan of rock paper scissors or coin flips though

[Cryonic]

To me it's just gimmicky and goes away from what traditional rpgs are. I like traditional rpgs. Games that use playing cards aren't traditional rpgs (not in the way I have come to know them in the 20 years I have been gaming).

So if a game uses playing cards I refuse to buy it or even look at it. Do yourself a favor and stick to traditional games, games that use dice.

Don't go the playing card direction just to come across as cool, there is nothing the playing card mechanic can do that cannot be accomplished by using traditional dice.

Hmm, so they are gimmicky because they are "new", but they've been used in RPGs for almost as long as you've been gaming.

I like some of the effects that happen by players having to share pulls from a community deck that you don't get from rolls off the dice. Just like in Poker and other card games, the odds of pulling certain cards change as the deck is drawn down, where as with dice the odds are fixed for each die roll.

I've seen the attempts to convert some of the "gimmicks" from using a deck being turned back into dice rolls (e.g. Deadlands being converted over to HERO) and they just lose all the flavor of why the deck was being used in the first place (randomization of order of initiative and the combat with spirits to cast spells in the case of deadlands).

[hellsreach]

There are certainly things a pack of cards can do that dice cannot. The biggest is "memory." A die has no statistical memory. The odds of rolling a 1 is the same whether you roll 2,3,6,2,2 in the previous 5 rolls, or whether you roll 1,1,1,1,1 in your previous 5 rolls (given a properly weighted die, that is). A deck of card "remembers" the previous picks by nature of not having that card be available for draw again. Thus, the "odds" are constantly changing improving the likelyhood of a given undrawn card being drawn. It's why you can count cards, but never "count" dice.

I'm not suggesting dice or cards or superior, but cards favor a wider gamut of play because you know that a series of low picks will increase the odds of drawing high in the next draw and vice versa. Also, the suits allow for additional levels of comparison. If to people roll 6, they tie no matter what. Cards allow you in increase the complexity of play, such that perhaps a heart is higher than a spade. Or by drawing multiple cards, you can look at the comparative relationship between them to determine a greater end result.

Lets say I have a game that uses cards. The players "save" the cards they draw in front of them so that they always have 5 cards (the 4 previous and the card they are drawing now). You can take relationships of those cards, and using poker "hands," the GM can describe remarkable bonuses or faults to amplfy game play.

ex.
In front of me I have a 7 of hearts and a 3,K,J, 8, of Spades. On my next draw, I pull a 4 of spades. A 4 is certainly nothing to write home about, but the 7 of hearts (the oldest draw) drops out and I now have a full flush draw. A 4 might not be great, but a Flush is and that amplifies game play in my favor in some way.

The point is, if you are just looking at a deck of cards one way -- a newly shuffled deck of 52 cards -- then they cards are no better than a die roll and would certainly be fairly gimmicky. But cards CAN be much, much more and it perhaps doing a game and yourself a disservice to automatically assume it's a gimmick and thus inferior to dice, thus not looking at the game.

Judge each game and each randomization mechanic at its own merit.

[The Game Guy]

Hmm, so they are gimmicky because they are "new", but they've been used in RPGs for almost as long as you've been gaming.

Well I have looked at many different games in the many years I have been gaming and I do not recall seeing playing card mechanics in any game I have seen. Torg uses a card mechanic which is ok but I don't think it's make or break.

At any point if a game uses a playing card mechanic I will not buy the game nor will I look at it because it's not a type of mechanic I care for.

[pathfinderap]

Well I have looked at many different games in the many years I have been gaming and I do not recall seeing playing card mechanics in any game I have seen. Torg uses a card mechanic which is ok but I don't think it's make or break.

At any point if a game uses a playing card mechanic I will not buy the game nor will I look at it because it's not a type of mechanic I care for.


Thats cuz you havn't seen Castle Falkenstein
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Falkenstein_(role-playing_game)

[The Game Guy]

Thats cuz you havn't seen Castle Falkenstein
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Falkenstein_(role-playing_game)

There is no information on that page that I can see.

[Jamfke]

Try this link:

Castle Falkenstein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Falkenstein_(role-playing_game))

[Stormchild]

Torg, Castle Falkenstein, Deadlands and Poker are but four of the many games that made me think about using cards for game mechanics. Cards have a lot of merit that allow for different game play than dice, as Eric stated.

What are the reasons we have game mechanics not just background information and Gamemaster fiat?

They are used when the conclusion of an action is not sure. The GM could simply take a look at your character sheet and state if you manage to do it or don't but that is anticlimatic. As a player you want to have the feeling that you have a say in what happens. This could also been done discussing with your GM, but would lead to sad feelings. Either you have a GM that is too gullible or too stern. This is the reason all those pure storyteller-systems are not that popular as the dice-rolling systems are.

There are a lot of different dice-systems out there. Some just let you roll arbitrary dice where the dice have more than 50% influence over the outcome of an action (more than a coin-flip) others have less influence, giving you only a slight edge or hindrance on your skills or attributes. Some use a mixture of the two systems as the D6 system does with the wild die (coin-flip) together with a skill-based die mechanic.

Then there are a lot of rules that give you options to improve your chances on the dice-roll (f.i. Poss or Fate Points). This leads to a more tactical game-play but can also lead to munchkinism. The more rules, the more the players can argue about how to interpret these rules and find some forgotten rules that weren't meant for just this occasion and can be misused. The less you can "touch" the rules, the more likely they are to be forgotten or abused. With cards you can "touch" them, you have some kind of abreviation of the rules lying before you, so you are less likely to forget them. If you have your dice mechanics on charts spread out over a lot of rulebooks, you are likely to forget them. This is why most RPGs use chart tables and GM screens, so you can "touch" them, have them in front of you all the time.

This is why hero clicks was such a revolutionary way to implement the rules other tabletops have printed in rule books and on player screens. Board games, card games and tabletops are much more complicated in this perspective than RPGs as there the players compete against each other without a GM as a referee. The rules have to be clear and easy to understand.

Not only is there a problem in keeping rules clearly defined, they also have to be easy to understand. Games that are too complicated are difficult to sell. Why should I buy and learn 30 pages of rules just to play a game, especially when there are games on the market that work with only 3 pages of rules? This is the reason settlers is such a popular game while Junta only has a small fan base (don't get me wrong, I love Junta, but it is hard to find other players). Settlers could be made much more complicated but the developers put a lot of thought into keeping it simple and what I call "touchable" meaning an abbreviated version of the rules is put before the players in order to make it easier for them to remember the complete rules.

So, cards can not only be used to implement chance in different ways than dice, they can also be used to help remembering the rules. Also, cards are essentialy dice rolls that can be saved for later use, taken away and used more tactical than dice rolls.

[masque]

what does it mean if they fool me a third time?
Insanity. B-)

I didn't have much use for Rolemaster Express, but I'm not a big Rolemaster fan. I don't think it was badly written, I just think HARP works so much more smoothly that I may not have given it the attention it deserved.

The HARP corebook I found to be one of the most clearly written RPG books that I've ever owned, and one of the few that I have read repeatedly for pleasure. I've been running it for about 6 months now, and it's going fine.

Back in the day when I read MERP I couldn't make heads nor tails out of it, but since I started building up my MERP library through eBay, I re-read it last year, and now I have no idea what confused me the first time. I'm not too worried about the corebook, anyway, if I use my MERP stuff it will be to mine it for material if I ever run a Middle Earth HARP campaign.

Addendum for Skeloric:
Oh, and Skel, ICE is back in business, and has been for a while. It's been under new management, and it's still producing Rolemaster in RMFRP and RM2 form (RM2 is now known as Rolemaster Classic and the Rolemaster Express under discussion is a simplification of that) and its newish game, HARP. HARP is basically the replacement for MERP, but far superior in terms of flexibility, in my opinion. It's not limited to 10 levels the way MERP was, and the scalable magic system alone is worth the price of admission, in my book.

[Kalzazz]

Oh, notably Ive never bought a dissapointing RPG book, Ive bought only very few books I didnt A: preview thoroughly ahead of time, or B: acquire from the ultra bargain bin

And got lucky on all of those

[The Game Guy]

Try this link:

Castle Falkenstein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Falkenstein_(role-playing_game))

Yeah that worked. Doesn't really come across as a game I would like to play.

Just not my taste (and it has nothing to do with the playing card mechanics).

[Jamfke]

Not really my speed either, but for some reason, the board deleted a section of the straight link to the site, so I just did a hyperlink so folks could see what it was about.

[Stormchild]

Castle Falkenstein has a lot of problems. Cool layout but crappy editing. I just looked into it today for the first time since when I bought it when it hit the market and instantly remembered why I didn't read it back then.

Being from Bavaria, naturally, I looked up Bavaria first and got really angry. You can expect from any publisher that he is able to pick up a map and a traveller guide in order to get basic information. They did it obviously and weren't able to transcribe the names correctly, not just some but nearly all.

Just some examples: the house of Wittlesbach is in reality called Wittelsbach, castle Nymphenberg is really Nymphenburg, castle Herrensee is really Herrenchiemsee (Herrensee is in Austria), the museum Alte Pinotek is really Alte Pinakothek (greek for the place where holy items are stored, but maybe Pinotek is a funny word in greek). But the funniest thing I found on a first glance is that they misspelled Wien (Vienna) as Wein (which is vine in german and would be very appropriate for a city that is so fond of this beverage).

The map looks great but offers nearly no information, it is just for show. And more it is presented in a way that the most important part with Bavaria and Prussia (the two nations the whole game is about) are in the middle of the map, separated by two pages and nearly not readable. And, while all cities on the separate Bavarian map are listed with their german names, N?rnberg is called Nuremburg here, which is neither the english nor the german version and they use the special german letters ?,?,? in the text, so this can not be the reason, it is just sloppy editing.

Nonetheless, the game looks interesting and I recall having played and enjoyed it once or twice at cons. It seems the rules are not seen to be important, they are featured not very prominently from page 181 to 190. I didn't have the time by now to give them more than a glance but it looks as if the possibilities the cards give are not really grapped.

[skeloric]

I had the GURPS version of Castle Falkenstein and I rather liked the presentation there.
In GURPS I could begin putting together the Cthorr/Falkenstein crossover that I thought might be quite fun and see if a little Steampunk boost from the Steampunk book might work nicely.
As far as being a disappointment, my copy certainly wasn't.
The map (p 17) is small but covers only one page and seems to have most of the spelling errors corrected.

[pathfinderap]

Stormchild, it isn't meant to be the real world, just very loosely inspired by it,
its a fantasy, hence dragons and steampunk tech,

[pathfinderap]

Yeah that worked. Doesn't really come across as a game I would like to play.

Just not my taste (and it has nothing to do with the playing card mechanics).

Each to their own, many people like this game, and it can fetch a high price at sale, (I've seen a battered copy falling apart at the seams for over 100 quid, (near 200 usd)

That reminds me I have the hardback copy of this, its a gem :)

[Stormchild]

Stormchild, it isn't meant to be the real world, just very loosely inspired by it,
its a fantasy, hence dragons and steampunk tech,

I know that. But they obviously had the intention to use the real-world names. And it is sad to see that a game of such high visual quality has been edited so sloppily. When copying information from a map or a tourist guide it can happen that you make some mistakes, but not so many. It gives the impression that maybe the rest of the game has been edited equally sloppy. Seeing how information in a game is taken as gospel by players and GMs this could possibly ruin a game. And just to imagine american players playing in Nuremburg and think this is how the city is called (which happens to be a city where I lived many years) makes me sick, what would you think if you knew germans would be playing in Pissburg and believe this to be the real name?

[pathfinderap]

I know that. But they obviously had the intention to use the real-world names. And it is sad to see that a game of such high visual quality has been edited so sloppily. When copying information from a map or a tourist guide it can happen that you make some mistakes, but not so many. It gives the impression that maybe the rest of the game has been edited equally sloppy. Seeing how information in a game is taken as gospel by players and GMs this could possibly ruin a game. And just to imagine american players playing in Nuremburg and think this is how the city is called (which happens to be a city where I lived many years) makes me sick, what would you think if you knew germans would be playing in Pissburg and believe this to be the real name?

Why would they think its the real name? its a fantasy,
I don't think they are spelling mistakes, they just wanted to spell them differently,

Seems odd to criticise the spelling being off, but not the setting?
I don't think anyone sane is going to confuse this with real history, etc

[Stormchild]

I consider myself quite sane. And for me it seems obvious that this is bad spelling as there are a lot of other names that are exactly the real names. But of course, this was just my first impression of the game. If I had done a review of the book, I would have stated this not very differently and of course, I had written what I think about the setting, the rules and much more. But I only wrote about my first impression in the above post.

Intentionally using different name and sloppy editing are two different things. The first is part of creative writing and what names you use show how much you have done your homework (f.i. instead of using the Wittelsbach dynasty using the Agilolfinger dynasty), while misspelling to such an extent just shows that the editor was sloppy, not a good sign for the rest of the content but nonetheless just a bad sign.

As I said, I am in the process of reading it, which should indicate I am willing to give it a chance though the editorial errors have already biased me in some way. When we can't agree if this is intentional or an editorial mistake, how should players ever be able to find out if some silly rules are meant to be that silly or are editorial mistakes (not to say there are silly rules as I haven't read them yet)? This is the reason I am that harsh on editorial errors.

[The Game Guy]

Not really my speed either, but for some reason, the board deleted a section of the straight link to the site, so I just did a hyperlink so folks could see what it was about.

It's something about the fantasy/steampunk pairing that I just don't dig. Oh well

[skeloric]

On the "They spelled it wrong!" issue:
Those indeed are spelling errors as they are corrected in my GURPS edition.

[The Game Guy]

On the "They spelled it wrong!" issue:
Those indeed are spelling errors as they are corrected in my GURPS edition.

Who spelled what wrong?

[skeloric]

Who spelled what wrong?
The very issue of "Castle Falkenstein" mentioned just previously in the thread.

[bass]

I know it is said to be a great game, and innovative and all that. But to me, Nobilis is just crap. The setting is unplayable, and the rules are a joke. The only reason I haven't sold my copy is that they are going for $200 on Amazon, and I don't like to part with books worth that much.

[skeloric]

I know it is said to be a great game, and innovative and all that. But to me, Nobilis is just crap. The setting is unplayable, and the rules are a joke. The only reason I haven't sold my copy is that they are going for $200 on Amazon, and I don't like to part with books worth that much.

I happen to own 2 copies.
Mine are the extra fancy $50 to $60 editions.
I love the books despite -- as you say -- the system being a joke.
$200 on E*Bay you say?
Even as a "joke" system, that is some good cash so someone must like it.

I am glad not to have shelled out the cash to buy these books, they were gifts actually.
part of two separate game collections I was given when people moved away.

[bass]

I happen to own 2 copies.
Mine are the extra fancy $50 to $60 editions.


I bought the only copy the store had, which I think cost 49 or 59 dollars. I'll explain why I don't like it. Even with an obviously fantasy book like Nobilis, I always interpret the rules system by how would a average person react to this? And the laws put down by the ruling lord are just rediculous, for example no love, not even saying "I love". I can understand how, as a game, that would be interesting. But I cannot see how a person raised to a nobe could function under the set of laws that the game carries with it. And the mechanics of the game just don't work for me. That, and the idea of a noble of ear wax is funny.

[The Game Guy]

I happen to own 2 copies.
Mine are the extra fancy $50 to $60 editions.
I love the books despite -- as you say -- the system being a joke.
$200 on E*Bay you say?
Even as a "joke" system, that is some good cash so someone must like it.


Well I wouldnt say the system is unplayable or a joke. People have played it. I just happen to be one of the people who, like you and bass do not like the system.

I know someone was thinking of doing a 3rd edition so if you are looking to get rid of your copies of the game and make some cash, now is a good time to do so.

[Stormchild]

This may be a bit off topic, but I found no better thread to place this and it is not relevant enough to warrant a new thread.

I just stumbled upon this site I never had heard before http://www.wordclay.com/Default.aspx
It is about a self-publishing company that offers its service for free and only charges a percentage of sale and 99$ for an ISBN number. This sounds too good to be true.

Self-publishing has been around as a way to milk people's ego and get their money for years. But I can't find the hitch of this one. Has anyone here had any experience with worldclay or know of anyone who has?

[The Game Guy]

This may be a bit off topic, but I found no better thread to place this and it is not relevant enough to warrant a new thread.

I just stumbled upon this site I never had heard before http://www.wordclay.com/Default.aspx
It is about a self-publishing company that offers its service for free and only charges a percentage of sale and 99$ for an ISBN number. This sounds too good to be true.

Self-publishing has been around as a way to milk people's ego and get their money for years. But I can't find the hitch of this one. Has anyone here had any experience with worldclay or know of anyone who has?

I haven't. I would do a heavy google search before even thinking about approaching this. There have been many of these companies before and I am not so sure the ones I have seen are still around.

I would be very careful.

[SunFury79]

Talking about disappointments, I have 3 words: Anima: Beyond Fantasy. If you want to play a table-top version of final fantasy, including doing all the calculations the computer does by hand, then this is your game. Seriously, just making a character is like doing your taxes. Sad thing is that I shelled out the $60 anyway because the spoilers I read about the setting were jaw-dropping. They included enough setting to make you wish you already had the upcoming world book.

Though, the biggest disappointment of all? I obsessed over this book for the almost 4 years it took to come out.

[pathfinderap]

Talking about disappointments, I have 3 words: Anima: Beyond Fantasy. If you want to play a table-top version of final fantasy, including doing all the calculations the computer does by hand, then this is your game. Seriously, just making a character is like doing your taxes. Sad thing is that I shelled out the $60 anyway because the spoilers I read about the setting were jaw-dropping. They included enough setting to make you wish you already had the upcoming world book.

Though, the biggest disappointment of all? I obsessed over this book for the almost 4 years it took to come out.

Yeah Anima: Beyond Fantasy :(

[kellhound]

Here in Spain a lot of people "got their fingers caught" (more or less your "got burned with") with Anima, too.
I still can't understand how an RPG can be "manga". Drawing your character with very big round eyes? :rolleyes:

As for myself, Interstellar Elite Combat. Could not even finish reading the darn thing.

[Jamat]

Yes Anima was a disappointment to me too :(

I thought I'd made another mistake with Cadwallon too but once I sat down and read it through a couple of times I actually like it better than 4E D&D.

I agree with Aces and Eights as well I thought it was overly complicated for a western and it didn't even have zombies in it :D

jamat

[skeloric]

Most RPGs eventually disappoint me.

Maybe it comes of a friend who dearly enjoys being overly critical in a logical manner.
He can utterly destroy a thing with a few well placed bouts of logical critical scrutiny that most things can never hope to withstand and is more than willing to share his insights.
I got D6 Fantasy for cheap in an eBay auction and tried to get him interested in trying it out.
Out came the "calculator of doom" (he has near absolute recall and can do enough calculations in his head to be frightening as well) and he explained in graphic detail exactly how "hopelessly flawed" the D6 system happened to be, which has me disappointed even before the book arrives through the mail.

Maybe its that eventually the support ends or never occurs at all.
A critical supplement never comes to pass and a person is left wondering what the supplement might have added.

Maybe its an overall lack of scope in the original design that eventually leaves the game feeling hollow and poorly thought out.

Maybe its an unnecessary level of complexity that places the game in a class of its own.

I've only ever had roughly 2 RPGs survive throughout this process unscathed.
GURPS and AFMBE.

While I dearly love TORG, it grows stranger year by year as its overall "relevance" decreases the further from 1990 we get.

TOON also has escaped most of the disfavor by being "silly" and never meant to be taken seriously, but its "silly" and thus my more serious friends look upon it with almost as much loathing as they would an incurable venereal disease.

[asmkm22]

Pretty much any system or game that I play semi-regularly with friends won't disappoint me. It's the ones that never get used that I dislike.

[HoracePeabody]

Biggest disappointment recently was, '45 Psychobilly Retropocalypse by Postmortem Studios. With a name like that, I suppose one imagines a great deal. I was expecting Cadillacs and Dinosaurs on LSD. There wasn't anything really new or interesting about it to me, the system seemed very basic, the setting for sounding really wild, was standard pulp. The art was bad and the fiction seemed really childish...and not in a fun way. At best, it was a weak clone of octaNe...I didn't much like that either, but it's a better game overall.

I'll stick with Cadillacs and Dinosaurs on LSD. ;)

[kellhound]

Wow, another Cadillacs&Dinos fan?
Cool :D

[HoracePeabody]

I'm a fan of the role-playing game, only much later did I read the comics. I've had some really memorable campaigns using smaller licensed games, where I am woefully and deliberately ignorant of the source material...like "Cadillacs and Dinosaurs", "TMNT", "Chi-Chian", etc.

The "Cadillacs and Dinosaurs" campaign was truly unforgettable and lasted a long time. It ended up as kind of "The Outsiders" meets "Texas Chainsaw Massacre"...with my (normally placid) players exploring the very darkest depths of their being, as "greasers" with a passion for butchery. The setting quickly became just a kind of backdrop, but it added a real element of desperation and absurdity. Probably the most horrific game I've been involved in.

[The Game Guy]

I agree with Aces and Eights as well I thought it was overly complicated for a western and it didn't even have zombies in it :D

jamat

I agree that Aces and Eights was overly complicated. I traded in at my FLGS for another game. Plus, it sealed my hate for games that use playing card mechanics.