Martial Arts Advanced Skill? And any bonus verses someone with just Brawling?

[TinMan]

The way I have used Martials arts in the past is similar to force skills:

It is sorta an advanced skill but I would not have it start at 1D like other advanced skills like engineering.

You need a teach to learn new moves.

You need a teach to learn the skill period.

Once you have the skill Martial Arts, in general is double the cost to bring up if you don't have a teacher.

Where I get a little confused if you have martial arts and you are fighting someone with brawling, shouldn't you get a bonus to hit and block? Yes you can use those special moves listed in the spec forces book but isn't a martial artist just more refined and disiplined then the guy trained in street fighting aka brawling?

If you have Nohgri martial arts you get a plus 10 to your roll becuase it is such a unique style know one knows exactly how to deal with a fighter with it.

With Martial arts should you not get a say a plus 5 bonus when fighting a regular brawler?


What say you???

[Jurgun]

I've read similar arguments over the years regarding martial arts, but I don't agree with them. I don't think a character with a special fighting style should get a bonus over another. For one thing, when people use the phrase "just a brawler" they're being a bit unfair. Brawlers have styles and are effectively martial artists just as much as someone who practices the Asian arts. Besides, have you seen those IFC guys? I don't care if you're Bruce Lee, I feel sorry for you if you get in the ring with one of them.

So basically all that matters to me is the die code of your skill. 6D in Brawling is just as badass as 6D in Kung Fu. Shake hands and may the best man win.

[Whill]

I've got some clearer ideas on how to handle other advanced skills but I'm not sure about Martial Arts. IIRC Rerun has a good handle on Advanced Skills. If we're lucky, maybe he'll reply to this thread. :cool:

[Rerun941]

The bonus with advanced skills is that you can add it to the prerequisite skill roll. So if your martial artist is going to do a simple block using the Brawling skill, he can add his Kung Fu (A) to the roll. (Just like a Doctor can add Medicine (A) to his First Aid skill roll.)

It gets a little trickier when you want to have the Kung Fu guy use a special Kung Fu move against the Brawler, but generally, i would give a bonus to the Martial Artist. (maybe +5 or +10) to indicate the difference in training. Similar to how someone with a knife gets a +10 to defend against a brawling attack, except the advatage with a knife is technological and not mental.

In my view, someone with the Brawling skill is a street fighter. Has gotten into scuffles and has learned a few things from experience.
A martial artist with the Advanced skill is someone who's had actual, formal training in fighting and has practiced those moves in a controlled environment (aka sparring). Boxing is a martial art, Karate is a martial art, Kung Fu is a martial art. Brawling is not a martial art.
UFC fighters are martial artists, not brawlers. Most have learned a particular style and have practiced it. Members of inner city gangs are brawlers (unless they maybe have gotten a bit of boxing training.)

[Bobmalooga]

I just don't think that there should be a specialized Brawling skill, Brawling is brawling and 'special attacks' and the otherwise sound way to much like the force for me...Terasi Kasa made a big mess of that stuff and I've had players who wanted it for years and it's supposed to be super rare so my responce was always...well you've heard of it, but don't know anyone who can teach you....

Keith

[TinMan]

Yeah Rerun that is my view as well. As you say the UFC guys are Martial Artists like MMA stands for Mixed Martial Arts, so yeah those guys aren't just yo yo's off the street with an attitude. They're yo yo's with and attitude and piles of formal training in 2 or more martial arts disciplines.

The rare martial artist in my games will get a bonus against regular brawlers, I'm just not going to get into specific styles beyond: Brawling with no bonus, Martial Arts with a +5 bonus versus Brawlers, Nohgri Martial Arts which will get a plus 5 bonus versus Martial artists and (the as stated in the books) plus 10 bonus versus brawlers.

I will list it as an advanced skill (double cost to bring up unless a teacher is available) but I won't have it start at 1D I'll have it start at the Dex of the character. Since other advanced skills are things like engineering which is being taught to think in a completely abstract way based on having 5D in the parent skill. Martial Arts on the ether hand are disciplines with very straight forward teaching regiments and levels and no prerequisite skill is required.