d6 license

[Crusis]

How do you get them now? I posted up on the WEG site, and nothing at all has been replied too except for one person saying they want to know too. Pretty amazing to see a company that doesn't even bother to sell its product to interested customers.

I've been a d6 Star Wars player for over a decade now, and it's a great game. I just hate George Lucas and what he's done to SW, so my friends and I have decided to create our own.

If we can't get a d6 license, then we're going to have to go d20 and we all know what an abortion that is. Anyone have any real idea how long WEG is going to be in limbo or who the potential buyers are? Because if we know, I want to court them for a license now because I want to help keep them alive, and if they do live the licenses will probably be cheaper at first.

I guess alternatively we could change a few things about the system and say "D6? What are you talking about? This isn't D6? I can see the similarities but we use only red dice and one white dice. The white dice has a skull in place of the one and a treasure chest in place of the 6. See? It's not at all the same."

This end to a great company is just damn silly.

[Jamfke]

I had inquired about a license myself a few months ago. Eric responded by saying that since he is going to make D6 Open that he will not be licensing out the system any further since it would soon :rolleyes: be free to use by all.

If I were in his current position, still planning on making D6 Open as he originally stated, I'd go ahead and license out the system as is and take the funds gained from that to pay off some of his other debts. But that's just me.

[Grimace]

I think you'd just be talking to nobody if you tried courting anyone currently dealing with the potential sale of West End Games. When one side is trying to sell, they're not going to try to license anyone new out on the system. Likewise, when the other side is trying to purchase, they're not going to want to start picking up a bunch of licenscees when they don't even own the company yet and probably haven't even cemented a complete plan of attack for what they intend to do with the whole company.

So trying to push for a license from either side is pointless at this point in time. Eric mentioned on the WEG boards that if this sale "as a whole" of WEG does NOT go through, then he will make D6 Open like he originally intended. If the sale does go through, though, it will be up to the new company owner(s) to decide what they're going to do and when they want to announce that they own WEG.

As far as coming up with derivative works...make sure you have a lengthy visit with a copyright lawyer before you think about publishing anything. Especially when it comes to making an "alternative" Star Wars. LFL has much more stern and money-backed lawyers on hand than even WOTC has and would put the hurt on you big time if you tried to do anything Star Wars related and make a profit from it. So get legal advisement before you do anything like that.

Basically, right now, patience is a virtue. Wait and see if the sale of West End Games goes through first. If it does, then approach the new owner and petition them for a license. If it doesn't, let Eric make D6 Open like he wants to and then use that system to make things. Regardless of what happens with WEG, make absolutely, positively sure you're not stepping anywhere remotely close to Star Wars with your "alternative" version, otherwise you'll likely experience a world of hurt heaped upon you by Lucasfilm Ltd.

[Crusis]

Thanks for the advice. It's not anything like Star Wars, which I actually consider to be a plus personally, because SW isn't really what it used to be.

We'll keep fleshing out the game, and if it works out, it works out. If it has to go D20, that won't be a killer either. It's consistent and accurate content that matter the most to me, presented in a believable environment. At least as much as an RPG can be believable, since it's an escape from reality. ;)

[asmkm22]

Eric has a lot on his plate, I'm sure, so getting into potential licensing issues right now probably isn't going to be very fruitful.

Besides, he'd get e-raped for selling licenses when he's supposedly selling the IPs.

[hellsreach]

Remember folks. e-rape is not about e-sex, but e-control and e-domination...

People have it right so far. There are lots of things in the mix right now. I cannot and will not issue any license to D6. First, if it ends up being sold, it needs to be done with as little encumbrance as possible. If WEG is not sold, D6 will not be sold and will instead be made available under an open license.

[schnarre]

Remember folks. e-rape is not about e-sex, but e-control and e-domination...

People have it right so far. There are lots of things in the mix right now. I cannot and will not issue any license to D6. First, if it ends up being sold, it needs to be done with as little encumbrance as possible. If WEG is not sold, D6 will not be sold and will instead be made available under an open license.


Hang in there, & keep us posted mate!

[Crusis]

Remember folks. e-rape is not about e-sex, but e-control and e-domination...

People have it right so far. There are lots of things in the mix right now. I cannot and will not issue any license to D6. First, if it ends up being sold, it needs to be done with as little encumbrance as possible. If WEG is not sold, D6 will not be sold and will instead be made available under an open license.

I completely understand. As typical, I plan my activities to occur at the worst possible moment. I hope it works out as well as it can for you personally, because there are alternatives for starving game designers to use if someone buys WEG and d6 and charges a fortune for the license. So see to yourself and your family, and I hope it brings you fortune.

BTW, not to tell you your business, of course (don't you love how when people say things like that they then tell you your business?), but are you not afraid that open d6 will result in a load of trash being placed on the table and make gamers leary of the system? You're probably sick of administering it, but a free license with a yearly renewal based upon the quality of submitted material would potentially result in a more robust collection that is more attractive to gamers and would result in greater sales for all. A greater reputation for d6 equating to quality cannot hurt anyone except those who would release trash.

Just a thought, not really telling anyone their business, I'm just a noob here. :p

[asmkm22]

BTW, not to tell you your business, of course (don't you love how when people say things like that they then tell you your business?), but are you not afraid that open d6 will result in a load of trash being placed on the table and make gamers leary of the system? You're probably sick of administering it, but a free license with a yearly renewal based upon the quality of submitted material would potentially result in a more robust collection that is more attractive to gamers and would result in greater sales for all. A greater reputation for d6 equating to quality cannot hurt anyone except those who would release trash.


I think the general idea here is that the D6 system wouldn't quite see the level of product glut that D20 did, simply because it doesn't have anywhere close to that sort of userbase.

Also, even crappy D6 products might be better than no D6 products, which is what we have. I could see someone releasing a product so horribad that everyone has to buy the thing just to experience it for themselves... and then find out how great D6 is :P

[Crusis]

Good points. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I personally like d6 for its simplicity and versatility. My partners and I have been researching our butts off learning things and designing for our game, but others might think simplicity of rules equates to a simplicity of design.

I spent all week researching railguns, mass drivers, and designing survey vessels. :) Oddly enough, I'm learning things and having more fun than just playing a premade game.

I think there are plenty of gamers out there open to any system if the content is good and abundant for the game. I think you can argue that for space, fantasy, combat, or any other type of game you can think of. That is why I think d6 needs a few really damn good games attached to it.

Hopefully over the course of the Winter our game will have base rules, deck plans, star systems, vehicles, and technology all ready to go where you can at least play the game and not feel like you have just the structure of a game but not the meat. We'll see. Whatever it takes, it won't go anywhere public until my friends and I enjoy playing it no matter what rules system we use.

Personally, I'm afraid that if a product is released that is 'horribad', that the gamer will be biased against d6 from that day on.

Maybe not, though. There are plenty of horribad D20 games and it still powers on.

[The Game Guy]

Maybe not, though. There are plenty of horribad D20 games and it still powers on.

D20 is still popular but I have read announcements from various companies about how they are ending various D20 lines. I think with D&D 4e and the GSL and overall D20 burnout that we are going to see D20 continue to fade.

A good thing because I think games with personalized mechanics are better then settings that have a generic system slapped into it.

[skeloric]

D20 is still popular but I have read announcements from various companies about how they are ending various D20 lines. I think with D&D 4e and the GSL and overall D20 burnout that we are going to see D20 continue to fade.

A good thing because I think games with personalized mechanics are better then settings that have a generic system slapped into it.
If we MUST have a generic system, I'd much prefer D6 or perhaps even TORG (TORG isn't QUITE "generic" but its easier just to say, "Yeah, this Weird West Cosm is actually Deadlands. This Superhero Cosm is actually DC Comics. This Space/Sci-Fi Cosm is actually Fading Suns," than to constantly try to pretend that we "just happened" to make something that looks a lot like one of them) rather than D20.

[The Game Guy]

Yep, I agree Skeloric.

I laugh at the people who try to pretend that D20 would have still been super popular if it hadn't been tied into D&D.

If it hadn't been tied into D&D it would have just been yet another mediocore generic system available on the market. It doesnt do anything other systems can do (some things it does better).

[skeloric]

Yep, I agree Skeloric.

I laugh at the people who try to pretend that D20 would have still been super popular if it hadn't been tied into D&D.

Worse, D&D's popularity is artificial.
It was the target of choice throughout the 80's and kids everywhere bought into "Ebil D&D" as a way to annoy their parents and clergy.
D&D is passe (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/passe) ((no longer fashionable, in wide use, etc.; out-of-date; outmoded)) and only someone completely out of touch with reality tries anymore to attack it as being some sort of "gateway to satanism".
But the damage is done.
D&D's success is that it is paradoxically the product that was most popular with the groups that hated it the most.
If they had hated it LESS, it might not have enjoyed such out of control success.
in the end, it isn't successful because people liked it so much but because some people hated it so much.
I rather wish someone had hated TORG enough to make it a world wide MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR SUCCESS STORY.
That's a hate one could really use. ;) :D



If it hadn't been tied into D&D it would have just been yet another mediocre generic system available on the market. It doesn't do anything other systems can do (some things it does better).
Without the above situation, it wouldn't have ever existed as such at all.
And what system would all those games be using instead?
Probably Runequest or Earthdawn.
Maybe Wizards would have bought up WEG back in 90-something instead and it'd be the one that is everywhere...

[Whill]

Maybe Wizards would have bought up WEG back in 90-something instead and it'd be the one that is everywhere...

And maybe Star Wars would still be D6. Please don't feed my time travel fantasies with more what ifs! :-)

[skeloric]

And maybe Star Wars would still be D6. Please don't feed my time travel fantasies with more what ifs! :-)

Such passed through my mind but I didn't want to bring it up.

[pathfinderap]

D20 is still popular but I have read announcements from various companies about how they are ending various D20 lines. I think with D&D 4e and the GSL and overall D20 burnout that we are going to see D20 continue to fade.

A good thing because I think games with personalized mechanics are better then settings that have a generic system slapped into it.

True, thats why I change certain generic systems per setting,

Btw, Anyone who knows or remembers me from other forums no doubt know I don't like the d20 system,

But I was just given the new D&D gift set as a birthday present,

And while it still has many issues and problems (the biggest being the whole game being nothing more than a combat engine) the game has improved in leaps and bounds,

Now I'm not saying I'd ever use this system for anything else, but I can say is I would be alot more happy to play this version of D&D out of the box now,

It has alot on nice ideas that would make game play alot more fun

Its alittle like an "Exalted" version of D&D, in its character growth through abilities, (well to me at least,) and seems to break away from alot of the small minded pettiness of the last edtion,

But this isn't 3.5,
4th is the edtion for the new millenium, faster, smarter, smoother, rounder,

Its a radical shift from 3.5, and that could loose it some fans,
but it brings to the table something old d20 lacked,

Playability,

And by that I mean that while old d20 demanded you climb a mountain for a thimble of water, this new version is like sliding down a water chute on the other side of the same mountain,

I can see this really pissing off alot of fan boys,
but long term drawing many more people

And these comments come from someone who could not stand d20

(btw, those d20 fans will still get their butts covered by the new Pathfinder RPG (no relation, lol))

[skeloric]

But this isn't 3.5,
4th is the edtion for the new millenium, faster, smarter, smoother, rounder,
it brings to the table something old d20 lacked,
Playability,
And by that I mean that while old d20 demanded you climb a mountain for a thimble of water,
I was one who jumped into 3.0 and embraced it for the upgrade from 2.0 and easily segued into 3.5 and then one day had that very realization.
I was climbing a mountain for a thimble of water.

If 4.0 isn't like that, that will be great but it won't matter unless they update all the Ravenloft material from 2.0 and 3.x
Having a nice Greyhawk setting to default to would be nice as well.
By the time either come to pass (if they ever do, which I doubt), I'll probably have bought the 4.0 books used for a nice cheap price.

[Whill]

I was just given the new D&D gift set as a birthday present

Happy Birthday!

[pathfinderap]

Happy Birthday!

Cheers :)


(and skeloric, if that was your only issue with the old system, you should really like the new, its a tight game)

[skeloric]

Cheers :)


(and skeloric, if that was your only issue with the old system, you should really like the new, its a tight game)
Well, I also had attendant issues with the widely variable quality of products and the overwhelming deluge that offered 15 different ways to accomplish the same damn thing when I'd rather prefer a single concise formula to achieve any or all of them instead.
But the "climb a mountain for a thimble of water" was what started me on the path to really seeing how ugly the entire situation was.
But even if all the improvements are true, without Ravenloft (the only reason I'd play D&D at all) I just have no desire to climb back on the "shell hundreds of dollars each month" merry-go-round that is WotC and whoever else publishes new D20 products.
Plus, I have no actual cash to drop as such a "purchase intensive" system requires.
(Yes, yes, you COULD make your own Classes but who REALLY wants to expend that level of effort? It'd be just more of the "climb a mountain for a thimble of water". Thus the alternative to buy all of the additional books.)

I want stuff more like GURPS or AFMBE/(classic) Unisystem or D6 or TORG or even White Wolf/Storytelling.

[Lee Torres]

But I was just given the new D&D gift set as a birthday present,

Hey! Happy Birthday, pathfinderap! Glad I dropped in on this thread, otherwise I'd have missed it! :)

Sorry for any derailment - back to the topic! Allons-y!

[Whill]

Ravenloft (the only reason I'd play D&D at all)

One of the best D&D campaigns I ever played in was Ravenloft for 2nd edition (the campaign that had a 2-hour game session in a car).

I'm defintely no fan of d20 or any incarnation of D&D, but settings-wise, Eberron was a the best fantasy setting I've ever seen. And Eberron finally introduced character points (the add dice to your role function) to D&D - they called them "action points." The main setting book stated that Eberron was supposed to be more cinematic, but of course you can only go a very small distance in that direction with d20.

I've looked at the D&D 4E books and at a glance it does seem that they have made some improvements to the system designed to make the game less complicated and more user friendly. Of course a little less complicated is not saying much for something you almost need a law degree to play. I have the "Saga Edition" of Star Wars and even though I've never played it, it does seem like the best WotC Star Wars game yet. But their Star Wars game and D&D 4E are still classes and levels and hit points and all that garbage I can't stand.

[hellsreach]

One of the best D&D campaigns I ever played in was Ravenloft for 2nd edition (the campaign that had a 2-hour game session in a car).

I'm defintely no fan of d20 or any incarnation of D&D, but settings-wise, Eberron was a the best fantasy setting I've ever seen. And Eberron finally introduced character points (the add dice to your role function) to D&D - they called them "action points." The main setting book stated that Eberron was supposed to be more cinematic, but of course you can only go a very small distance in that direction with d20.

I've looked at the D&D 4E books and at a glance it does seem that they have made some improvements to the system designed to make the game less complicated and more user friendly. Of course a little less complicated is not saying much for something you almost need a law degree to play. I have the "Saga Edition" of Star Wars and even though I've never played it, it does seem like the best WotC Star Wars game yet. But their Star Wars game and D&D 4E are still classes and levels and hit points and all that garbage I can't stand.


My favorite off-beat D&D setting was Al-Qadim -- though I played most in FR.

[pathfinderap]

Hey! Happy Birthday, pathfinderap! Glad I dropped in on this thread, otherwise I'd have missed it! :)

Cheers dude :D

[pathfinderap]

Well, I also had attendant issues with the widely variable quality of products and the overwhelming deluge that offered 15 different ways to accomplish the same damn thing when I'd rather prefer a single concise formula to achieve any or all of them instead.
But the "climb a mountain for a thimble of water" was what started me on the path to really seeing how ugly the entire situation was.
But even if all the improvements are true, without Ravenloft (the only reason I'd play D&D at all) I just have no desire to climb back on the "shell hundreds of dollars each month" merry-go-round that is WotC and whoever else publishes new D20 products.
Plus, I have no actual cash to drop as such a "purchase intensive" system requires.
(Yes, yes, you COULD make your own Classes but who REALLY wants to expend that level of effort? It'd be just more of the "climb a mountain for a thimble of water". Thus the alternative to buy all of the additional books.)

I want stuff more like GURPS or AFMBE/(classic) Unisystem or D6 or TORG or even White Wolf/Storytelling.

The most simple solution could be to order 4th Ed from your local library,
Take it on a test drive,

[The Game Guy]

I still love the story of Scott Palter, the founder of WEG getting a visit from the designers of a card game, who wanted WEG to publish their card game. Scott was in a bad mood that day and threw them out.

That little card game was Magic the Gathering.

[The Game Guy]

But I was just given the new D&D gift set as a birthday present

Hey, happy belated birthday

[skeloric]

I still love the story of Scott Palter, the founder of WEG getting a visit from the designers of a card game, who wanted WEG to publish their card game. Scott was in a bad mood that day and threw them out.

That little card game was Magic the Gathering.

Moral of the story:
Don't be in a F***ing bad mood.

[The Game Guy]

Moral of the story:
Don't be in a F***ing bad mood.

Or at least keep it to yourself when you are conducting business. Otherwise, you can end up screwing yourself.

It's amazing to think what WEG would be like if they had published Magic the Gathering.

[pathfinderap]

Hey, happy belated birthday

Cheers :D

its either later or very early, lol